Question: is it possible for a player to lag another player?

[craij]

Hi all, simple (maybe stupid) question:

Is it possible for a player to lag another player while connected to the same game server?

Thanks in advance for your input (even the ridiculous ones [dean, rictor]),
craij

[SD]

I would probably say no, it's not possible. But I don't know that for a fact, dyn is server guru around here and would probably be able to tell you with more certainty. However - there IS such a thing as artificial lag - sometimes referred to as a lag-bot. It's where a player deliberately (by whatever means) lags his connection, purpose being it makes them VERY hard to hit, I had some demos of a player who I banned for it, if I still have them I will post them here for you to have a look.

Any reason why you ask that question??

[Rictor]

I'm not sure about this one but, I gotta say, there are a few peeps online that I cannot hit whatever I do. These are all guys in the 130 to 200 ping range. Their player image has an affect similar to a strobe light, especially up close. You shoot, he's not there anymore in which case, circumference spam is the only way to consummate a frag outside of pure luck. I suspect this is a tweak beyond, or in addition to, cl_timenudge.

[AG]

no -- clients don't affect other clients.

[craij]

so, a client couldn't get my IP and run some variation of DoS while we're playing? the reason I ask is that there is a certain player that when he connects, my usually good connection turns to shit. and, during game play, he went to spec, my connection went to shit again and he actually smiled ":>" at the time it began. so, during the last two sesssion playing, my connection went cruddy three times. but no other instances. maybe its just coincidence. thanks for the input guys, i'll let you know if it happens again.

[Shishisenkou]

I actually wonder this to. My internet connection would be 100% okay and still would be okay in game, then randomly I'd get dropped from the game for no reason but my internet is still going perfectly, but everyone else stays in game.

For an example of it happening to me: I heard from Rain. when her, someone else, and I were in game, that person in game goes "HAHAHA 999 ping " after I dropped and then left as soon as I got back in. I'm not going to call names on who said that as it will cause crap, but this has happened twice over the past couple times with the same person when "it" gets really pissed at me. Both times this has happened is when it's only Rain, "it", and I are in game.

[AG]

no.

[dyn]

No, server is not lagged by players, we ran 30+ player games fine (and 64 with bots) and COD4 had 62 players at one time. But in COD4 there are other issues with 50+ players, not related to connection. Players cannot lag others, because server accepts game data from all clients, processes this data and then sends it to you. No client is able to send anything to you server doesn't permit -- all data you get is from the server only and server won't lag you.

There is one issue and this is too low rate and packets settings at clients (/rate, /cl_maxpackets). You may experience a bit higher ping, but NOT lag or connection issues, when we play on open maps and there is a lot of action. Server is sending you updates on all stuff visible to you in 360 degrees radius, plus some more, which sometimes requires rates of around 30000. Keep in mind this is rather low really, it means merely a 30k downstream and upstream from client is usually 2-12k per second, on top of that Q3 uses compression, so rate 30000 can push same as 50000 uncompressed or similar. I recommend /rate 40000 (or more) and /cl_maxpackets 60-90 and /snaps 30 (40 is same as 30). Use /toggle cg_lagometer to see if your connection is good, few yellow dots now and then can still be good, if you have red lines or yellow triangles then connection is not good.


So, even dialup can handle Q3, it's no problem at all with cable or adsl or ftth. If you get disconnected for no reason then try playing Q3 with clean OS. Remove stuff you don't need, there must be something, either not allowing packets thru or disrupting your connection. Maybe there are wifi connectivity issues. If you test if internet is working properly then test download speeds with download manager and make sure source is fast enough to send at full speed of your connection. Download manager because they use multiple streams/connections to single file. Only then you can see if line is ok. Tests like speedtest.net are useless most of the time, because not all clients can receive single download at full speed and their servers are stressed, not always sending to you at full speed. If you just open few pages to 'see if it works', that won't tell you much because TCP protocol (for www) handles bad connections very good, while UDP which is used for games needs good unsaturated connectivity. UDP is only sending packets once and if there are line errors those packets are lost, so for games your connection must be reliable, while for TCP client can always demand new packets in case some get lost.

One more thing, if you test your max speed it's good to see graph as well, for example http://www.dumeter.com/ can show you that. Always try multiple sites to download something, or download from multiple sources at once, so line is really utilized 100%. You also need to know what is your max speed @ ISP, so you can call them in case connection is not optimal. Many times problems are easily fixed.

[SERGIO]

Common people does not know how disable unnecesary services or backgrounds programs, if it is your case I suggest you use Game Booster.

http://www.iobit.com/gamebooster.html

"Game Booster is designed to help optimize your PC for smoother, more responsive game play. It works by temporarily shutting down unnecesary background procesesses and services and cleaning RAM."

I always use it, and my ping lowered from 180 - 200 to 135. Please test it and leave a comment.

[craij]

so, a client couldn't get my IP...?

*bump*

[AG]

no

[DarthPaganeo]

Common people does not know how disable unnecesary services or backgrounds programs, if it is your case I suggest you use Game Booster.

http://www.iobit.com/gamebooster.html

"Game Booster is designed to help optimize your PC for smoother, more responsive game play. It works by temporarily shutting down unnecesary background procesesses and services and cleaning RAM."

I always use it, and my ping lowered from 180 - 200 to 135. Please test it and leave a comment.

Wow! im going to try this one, thanks Sergio.

[dyn]

Nice app, but then again, do you really have so much stuff running in background so you need one more app to control that? It may be very useful, but i never noticed much ping increase with few more resident apps. Still, it's good to try it and if you see big improvements then you need to do some serious cleanup.

[craij]

maybe the app is just prioritizing network usage for him? maybe he has a bunch of wireless stuff going on from multiple machines or torrent apps running or other various streams he doesn't want to stop while playing

so, if there is no way for another user (client) to grab another user's ip during game play, i'll just assume that it was coincidence.

thanks, c

[dyn]

Hm, but still weird, i don't remember people having higher pings because of that. As i said, that app is good to check your OS, but instead of having loads of crap running, and then special solution to control that, it would be better to use only apps you really need and others on-demand.

Some people use software firewalls, many times on top of windows firewall and sometimes 2 different at once (like Skid did) + anti-virus + windows defender + windows firewall. I wonder how they manage to connect at first place. In that case best is to check if you have hardware firewall @ router or modem and use that, and enable ONE software firewall if you really need to.

[craij]

i agree completely. personally, i shut down everything possible with the exception of little snitch... and sometimes i'll shut that down too.

[IriDeck]

Unless your attacker knows your physical location and can get to your physical network (house, dorm, etc), the likelihood of another person specifically affecting your connection is slim.

But then, this is assuming they've never sent you a rootkit or trojan via e-mail, which you then subsequently installed and provided them with a backdoor to your machine. In which case, I'd recommend testing on a different machine within your network.

[inspectorjimb]

Would it be possible to lag my own connection? Is there a minimum ping I can set if I should want to prove a point to the "you only win because of your ping" haters?

[scumB]

InspectorJimb' s idea of lagging onself sounds good,
I say lag all good players with good ping!

My old idea of a ping-penance will then come true afterall

Ehm, this doesnt include me ofcourse, my ping is very nice these days and id like to keep it that way.

and one day I might get accused of cheating

[dyn]

Well, better idea is not to care and to answer: "yes, i have much better ping than you and you can do nothing about it, ahahaha!". There are US and UK FFA servers so you can easily see how much ping contributes to your performance. It is easier to play with sub-100 ping, but low ping alone won't help you much, you still need skill.

[Tripredacus]

so, a client couldn't get my IP...?

*bump*

I know AG and Dyn says no, but the answer is yes. You can get all client IPs from the console. I do not remember what the command is tho.

So if another player can get your IP, then all they need to do is ping you. If your firewall is up, then they can't ping you. Instead they can ping your gateway (of your ISP) and say... send huge-ass packets to it. It would end up DoS your entire node but some people are idiots.

When I worked for Adelphia, we pulled a prank on one guy that worked with us. When he had his days off, we would flood ping his cable modem with 1MB packets until he called in for support. How evil of us...

[AG]

I know AG and Dyn says no, but the answer is yes. You can get all client IPs from the console. I do not remember what the command is tho.

not true.

you're welcome to prove me wrong.

[dyn]

Tripredacus, instead of spreading FUD, check out original Q3 source code or perhaps ioquake3 source and then tell us which magical command can show you IPs of all clients, without having admin access.

Only /rcon status does this, but you must have rcon password, in other words, you must be admin.

Also, i do not recommend anyone to DoS any ISP. You won't flood them, but they will keep logs and most probably take legal action against you, especially if DoS caused them any downtime. Still, i am curious, why would someone need to ping anything before flooding? A lot of client firewalls and servers ignore pings, and at same time they are online.

[SD]

The command Trip is referring to is /rcon gogopowerrangers
This gives a god-like level of access far higher than any admin could ever dare to dream. Ask him, he'll tell you.

Geez dyn, thought you knew about this stuff........

[scumB]

Does everybody know these terms by the way:

HPB high ping bastard

LPW low ping whiner

make sure youre not a high ping whiner though...