Proof there is no God

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Proof there is no God

Postby craij » Fri May 27, 2011 21:06 UTC

if the conditions are right (say a dash of water, a pinch of carbon and nitrogen, some sunlight, etc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis#.22Primordial_soup.22_theory), anything can happen!

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a crapload of "inorganic compounds" just "standing around" helps a lot
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby IriDeck » Fri May 27, 2011 21:18 UTC

Haha! What were the rest of them doing, just chatting while Ms. Gauntlet destroyed them??
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby Hacksaw » Sat May 28, 2011 00:59 UTC

That would be my answer IriDeck also!
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby 1UnRaTeD1 » Sat May 28, 2011 04:08 UTC

if there were no god earth wouldnt exist.. and yet people think theres no god lol everything is created by someone earth just didnt pop out of nowhere..god created. i think the non believers acually believe. but not admitting it :)
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby dyn » Sat May 28, 2011 09:58 UTC

I think this thread is more like a testament to someone's enormous ego. :-)

About primordial soup, it would be a big waste of time and space to create anything that way. Even if it was possible for new life to randomly emerge from a "soup" (which never happened) it would be one of the most ineffective ways to produce life in this Universe. If you believe in God or not, you can observe everything in Nature has some purpose and all organisms are very optimized and effective at what they do. Therefore saying we are alone in this Universe (waste of space), or that we emerged from some prehistoric pool of crap by accident (waste of time) is very stupid and unnatural.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby SD » Sat May 28, 2011 12:20 UTC

1UnRaTeD1 wrote:if there were no god earth wouldnt exist.. and yet people think theres no god lol everything is created by someone earth just didnt pop out of nowhere..god created. i think the non believers acually believe. but not admitting it :)


Great story. I think I read this somewhere, in some old book some dudes wrote all about what they think they saw.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby 1UnRaTeD1 » Sat May 28, 2011 13:57 UTC

without 1. we be nothing but emptyness. err empty shell.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby SD » Sat May 28, 2011 14:37 UTC

1UnRaTeD1 wrote:without 1. we be nothing but emptyness. err empty shell.


Any sources for this assertion?
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby dyn » Sat May 28, 2011 15:31 UTC

SD wrote:
1UnRaTeD1 wrote:if there were no god earth wouldnt exist.. and yet people think theres no god lol everything is created by someone earth just didnt pop out of nowhere..god created. i think the non believers acually believe. but not admitting it :)


Great story. I think I read this somewhere, in some old book some dudes wrote all about what they think they saw.


That book is devoid of any real gnostic knowledge (on purpose), and well, you won't find much info on that in atheist books either. I noticed something interesting, but not unexpected -- most atheist articles and TV shows are directed against Christianity, and only on times against Islam. Not sure why much bigger threat of Islam is not addressed more often, at least in Europe. Not politically correct enough? But in any case it seems like a movement against Christian religion, not really against other spiritual practices like Buddhism, yoga (of the mind), meditation (clinically proven to be beneficial) and so on. If you look at it really carefully, you will see there is something else going on. Opposing and destroying major religion is only first step, it is not the ultimate goal of this movement, despite what perceived leader figures representing it may think. This movement is being used, as many others, to gradually introduce people to a new way of thinking, devoid of old dogmas and fears, however not without spiritual elements.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby craij » Sat May 28, 2011 15:54 UTC

dyn wrote:I think this thread is more like a testament to someone's enormous ego. :-)

ouch
now i'm just gonna be serious all the time
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby dyn » Sat May 28, 2011 15:56 UTC

No need. :)
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby craij » Sat May 28, 2011 16:15 UTC

1UnRaTeD1 wrote:earth just didnt pop out of nowhere..god created

if you are using "god" to describe "energy" ... you may be right. if you think some conscious (cosmic teleology) had something to do with this, you are going to be disappointed at death.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby SD » Sat May 28, 2011 16:54 UTC

dyn wrote:
SD wrote:
1UnRaTeD1 wrote:if there were no god earth wouldnt exist.. and yet people think theres no god lol everything is created by someone earth just didnt pop out of nowhere..god created. i think the non believers acually believe. but not admitting it :)


Great story. I think I read this somewhere, in some old book some dudes wrote all about what they think they saw.


That book is devoid of any real gnostic knowledge (on purpose), and well, you won't find much info on that in atheist books either. I noticed something interesting, but not unexpected -- most atheist articles and TV shows are directed against Christianity, and only on times against Islam. Not sure why much bigger threat of Islam is not addressed more often, at least in Europe. Not politically correct enough? But in any case it seems like a movement against Christian religion, not really against other spiritual practices like Buddhism, yoga (of the mind), meditation (clinically proven to be beneficial) and so on. If you look at it really carefully, you will see there is something else going on. Opposing and destroying major religion is only first step, it is not the ultimate goal of this movement, despite what perceived leader figures representing it may think. This movement is being used, as many others, to gradually introduce people to a new way of thinking, devoid of old dogmas and fears, however not without spiritual elements.


Yes, I have noticed that too, Christianity is usually the religion facing the most opposition. I think maybe it's down to it being probably the most widely known, or even widely "practiced" religion active in the world today. I'm not sure of the figures but I would assume Islam is the next widely known and practiced. And I wholeheartedly agree that Islam should be more actively opposed. It is opposed, vehemently, but maybe not on such a wide scale as Christianity. Islam is a pain in the ass in this country. I don't care if I offend anyone with this but Islam should be abolished. But then again I feel that way about every organised religion.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby SD » Sat May 28, 2011 16:56 UTC

craij wrote:
1UnRaTeD1 wrote:earth just didnt pop out of nowhere..god created

if you are using "god" to describe "energy" ... you may be right. if you think some conscious (cosmic teleology) had something to do with this, you are going to be disappointed at death.


I like the way you think. And of course I completely agree, but you're wasting your time trying to rationalise with theists, they don't understand ;)
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby 1UnRaTeD1 » Sat May 28, 2011 22:01 UTC

once u pass.. he will have a place for u to. just like me and others :)
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby 1UnRaTeD1 » Sat May 28, 2011 22:03 UTC

err for everyone .. typo
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby SD » Sun May 29, 2011 08:09 UTC

1UnRaTeD1 wrote:once u pass.. he will have a place for u to. just like me and others :)


Again no sources, safe to assume you're using the "I believe it because I want to so it must be true" policy.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby dyn » Sun May 29, 2011 09:45 UTC

SD wrote:Yes, I have noticed that too, Christianity is usually the religion facing the most opposition. I think maybe it's down to it being probably the most widely known, or even widely "practiced" religion active in the world today. I'm not sure of the figures but I would assume Islam is the next widely known and practiced. And I wholeheartedly agree that Islam should be more actively opposed. It is opposed, vehemently, but maybe not on such a wide scale as Christianity. Islam is a pain in the ass in this country. I don't care if I offend anyone with this but Islam should be abolished. But then again I feel that way about every organised religion.


Now challenge is to let them die of natural death and to revive what was lost long time ago. Without belief, expectations and hope there is no real human existence, it is how dreams are realized. It invokes that energy inside people which drives them forward, so they can realize their wyrd. This is why you cannot remove something and leave vacuum there. You always need to replace it with something new. Anything new must also have spiritual fundation, because there is no force in this world which can remove belief from the minds of people. Solution is simple: we must start with a new religion, without mysticism and fear mongering. :)
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby dyn » Sun May 29, 2011 09:50 UTC

SD wrote:
1UnRaTeD1 wrote:once u pass.. he will have a place for u to. just like me and others :)


Again no sources, safe to assume you're using the "I believe it because I want to so it must be true" policy.


Christianity borrowed myths of creation etc. from ancient Sumeria and Babylon (Mesopotamian region) and Egypt, but also removed a lot of knowledge accompanying those, so it is almost impossible for Christians today to know what is going on. Eden is a Sumerian name, it means flat terrain, in Christianity you have Garden of Eden. This originated from the Sumerian myth of Enki and Ninhursag. So much about originality. Even more, it is obvious people who stole/copied this never understood it correctly, they just translated it word-per-word. Obviously people who can't comprehend its meaning. Look:
The Sumerian word for rib is ‘ti’ . To heal each o Enki’s dying body parts, Ninhursag gives birth to eight goddesses. The goddess created for the healing of Enki’s rib is called ‘Nin-ti’, ‘the lady of the rib’. But the Sumerian word ‘ti’ also means ‘to make live’. The name ‘Nin-ti’ may therefore mean ‘the lady who makes live’ as well as ‘the lady of the rib’. Thus, a very ancient literary pun was carried over and perpetuated in the Bible, but without its original meaning, because the Hebrew word for ‘rib’ and that for ‘who makes live’ have nothing in common.

Stupid Hebrews. :-D

Still, there is power in belief itself, no matter what is it. I can believe oranges are bad and bananas are good, and then get some followers. I am sure in time we could start a holy war against those who believe oranges are not evil, all those heretics damned to hell! Belief in itself has tremendous power.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby SD » Sun May 29, 2011 12:17 UTC

dyn wrote:
SD wrote:
1UnRaTeD1 wrote:once u pass.. he will have a place for u to. just like me and others :)


Again no sources, safe to assume you're using the "I believe it because I want to so it must be true" policy.


Christianity borrowed myths of creation etc. from ancient Sumeria and Babylon (Mesopotamian region) and Egypt, but also removed a lot of knowledge accompanying those, so it is almost impossible for Christians today to know what is going on. Eden is a Sumerian name, it means flat terrain, in Christianity you have Garden of Eden. This originated from the Sumerian myth of Enki and Ninhursag. So much about originality. Even more, it is obvious people who stole/copied this never understood it correctly, they just translated it word-per-word. Obviously people who can't comprehend its meaning. Look:
The Sumerian word for rib is ‘ti’ . To heal each o Enki’s dying body parts, Ninhursag gives birth to eight goddesses. The goddess created for the healing of Enki’s rib is called ‘Nin-ti’, ‘the lady of the rib’. But the Sumerian word ‘ti’ also means ‘to make live’. The name ‘Nin-ti’ may therefore mean ‘the lady who makes live’ as well as ‘the lady of the rib’. Thus, a very ancient literary pun was carried over and perpetuated in the Bible, but without its original meaning, because the Hebrew word for ‘rib’ and that for ‘who makes live’ have nothing in common.

Stupid Hebrews. :-D

Still, there is power in belief itself, no matter what is it. I can believe oranges are bad and bananas are good, and then get some followers. I am sure in time we could start a holy war against those who believe oranges are not evil, all those heretics damned to hell! Belief in itself has tremendous power.


Yes, 100% agree, from belief alone any number of things can stem. The problem lies in believing (especially if strongly) in things or notions for which there is no supporting evidence. You are correct in saying you could get followers for your oranges vs bananas thing, and probably right in saying in time some war could develop from that. Of course you have no evidence to offer for your position, but the question is - do you need any? I would say no, you don't, given how prolific belief in all sorts of things lacking evidence is in the world today, I'm sure just the suggestion alone would be sufficient to "convert" people to your new found position on fruit.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby dyn » Mon May 30, 2011 13:11 UTC

In the Book where our Most High Banana Lord speaketh to his people, there is all evidence you need. That book was written by Most High Banana himself, so questioning it is a heresy, and heretics are put to death. The Book states very clearly that oranges (and alligators) were created by the Devil. I am surprised i even need to talk about this to you. Perhaps demons are trying to possess your soul and i believe you may even need exorcism!

Jesus image appears on banana peel
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/jesus-image-appears-on-banana-peel/story-e6freuy9-1225812846613
Image
Image

Typical evil orange:
Image
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby SD » Mon May 30, 2011 15:40 UTC

Fuck! Consider me converted! Where do I sign?! lmao @ pics!
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby craij » Tue May 31, 2011 16:16 UTC

in regard to my original post... no sunlight? no problem. no oxygen? no problem. meet loricifera. booya!

re: Sumerians ... I will never swim in the Tigris.
"In Sumerian mythology, the Tigris was created by the god Enki, who ejaculated and filled the river with flowing water."

eww
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby dyn » Tue May 31, 2011 16:53 UTC

Perhaps few idiots believed that, but they surely do not represent Sumerian civilization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_civilization
The Encarta in its article about the development of early civilizations states: "some of these civilizations are the Andean one, which originated about 800 BC; the Mexican (about the 3rd century BC); the Far Eastern, which originated in China about 2200 BC and spread to Japan about AD 600; the Indian (about 1500 BC); the Egyptian (about 3000 BC); the Sumerian (about 4000 BC); followed by the Babylonian (about 1700 BC); the Minoan (about 2000 BC); the Semitic (about 1500 BC); the Greco-Roman (about 1100 BC).


Astronomy and Mathematics
In sharp contrast to the dark days between Ptolemy and Copernicus, the Sumerians clearly understood that the Earth revolved around the Sun and that the planets moved whilst the stars remained fixed. The evidence also suggests that they knew the planets of the Solar System before they were “discovered” in modern times (see chapter 7). Thousands of clay tablets, found at Nineveh, Nippur and other Sumerian sites, have been found to contain hundreds of astronomical terms. Some of these tablets included mathematical formulae and astronomical tables, which enabled the Sumerians to predict solar eclipses, the phases of the Moon and the movements of the planets. Studies of ancient astronomy have demonstrated the remarkable accuracy of these tables (known as ephemerides). No-one knows how they could have calculated such sophisticated data and we might well ask why they needed it. Several studies have suggested that the ziggurat, the hallmark of Sumerian architecture, may have also served an astronomical purpose. These structures contained a square base with corners perfectly aligned to the four cardinal points of the compass. One scholar has therefore suggested that they were ideal for astronomical observation:
Each stage of the ziggurat provided a higher viewing point and thus a different horizon, adjustable to the geographic location; the line between the east-pointing and west-pointing comers provided the equinoctial orientation; the sides gave solsticial views to either sunrise or sunset, at both summer and winter solstices. The Sumerians measured the rising and setting of the visible planets and the stars against the Earth’s horizon, using the same heliacal system that is used today. We also owe to the Sumerians the division of the heavens into three bands - the northern, central and southern regions (corresponding to the ancient Sumerian “way of Enlil”, “way of Anu” and “way of Ea”). In fact, the whole concept of spherical astronomy, including the 360-degree circle, the zenith, the horizon, the celestial axis, the poles, the ecliptic, the equinoxes etc, all arose suddenly in Sumer.

The Sumerian knowledge of the Sun and the Moon was combined to form the world’s first calendar, a solar-lunar calendar which began in 3760 BC in the city of Nippur.” The Sumerians recorded 12 lunar months amounting to approximately 354 days, and then added 11 extra days to match the solar year. This process, called intercalation, was continued each year, until the solar and lunar calendars realigned themselves after 19 years. The Sumerian calendar was thus carefully constructed to ensure that key days such as New Year’s Day always occurred on the spring equinox, and did not slip back as they do in other calendars.” It is difficult to imagine a more complex calendar than that of the Sumerians, and later calendars were indeed much simpler.” It is quite improbable that the first calendar, at Nippur, was the most complex and yet there is no doubt whatsoever that this was so. Indeed, the whole subject of Sumerian astronomy is most intriguing, for the simple reason that it was not a necessity for an emerging society.
From the book: Gods of the New Millenium by Alan F. Alford

Quite a contrast to the Gregorian calendar (Christian/western) from 4000 years later or non-existing astronomy. It's almost unbelievable how much knowledge was lost, only to be replaced by primitive semitic beliefs and dogmas later.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby dyn » Tue May 31, 2011 17:25 UTC

Check this, from the same book:
Allied to the Sumerians’ interest in astronomy was the world’s first known mathematical system. This system was highly advanced, and included the “place” concept, whereby a digit could take on a different value depending on its place in the overall number (as “1” can mean 1, 10, 100 and so on). However, unlike our present-day decimal system, the Sumerian system was sexagesimal. Instead of base 10, it was a quasi base 60 system, which rather strangely alternated by 10, then 6, then 10 and so on. The place-digits thus ascended as follows: 1, 10, 60, 600, 3600, 36,000, 216,000, 2,160,000, 12,960,000. As unwieldy as the Sumerian base 60 system might at first seem, it enabled the Sumerians to divide into fractions and multiply into the millions, to calculate roots or to raise numbers by several powers. In many respects it is superior to the base 10 system which is used today, due to the fact that 60 is divisible by ten integers whereas 100 is only divisible by seven integers. In addition, it is the only perfect system for geometry, and this explains its continued use in modern times - hence the 360 degrees in a circle. Few people realise that we owe not only our geometry but also our modern time-keeping systems to the Sumerian base 60 mathematical system. The origin of 60 minutes in an hour and 60 seconds in a minute is not arbitrary, but designed around a sexagesimal system. Sumerian numerology is similarly evident in the 24 hours in a day, the 12 months in a year, the 12 inches in a foot and the dozen as a unit. Its legacy also appears in modern numbering systems which comprise separate, distinct numbers from 1 to 12, followed by expressions for 10 + 3, 10 + 4, and so on.

Wow... This was knowledge from ~6000 years ago (4000 BC)! I still can't understand what the fuck happened later? Or even believe something like that is possible. Some sort of world-wide dumbing down. What caused it? Religion? Still in Egypt they preserved some of this, and build pyramids with extreme precision. So i think more drastic dumbing down occurred after ancient Egypt's time.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby IJ » Wed Jun 01, 2011 14:11 UTC

I don't think Islam or Christianity should be opposed. I don't think it's right to oppose anybody's beliefs in god. It just doesn't do any good. Now if someone uses their religion as an excuse to do some fucked up shit that's a whole different story.

Religion is like anything else, there are going to be positive and negatives to it. Choosing to oppose a religion and persecute or judge a group of people based off of their beliefs justs makes you an asshole.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby dyn » Wed Jun 01, 2011 15:38 UTC

Problem is both Christianity and Islam do not agree with your politically correct views. They want to convert you and they surely do not tolerate "unbelievers" or "infidels". Islam usually converts through violence, Christianity did that too, but recently they got more civilized (or cunning) and like to convert people via charity, for instance in Africa they will build a school or two, and then indoctrinate children into their belief system. Holy Jesus! Nothing is really for free with them, isn't it?

In Europe real danger right now comes from Islam, where you have big Muslim communities occupying parts of cities, which look like middle east, along with their laws and other violence, most of the time directed against native people of that country, including gang-rapes and attacks on police. I will never tolerate them and i will always actively oppose them, even if this makes me the last asshole on Earth!

So you want to tolerate this?




Also, Jesus or Christianity will help them in any way? If yes, how? I am certain Christian beliefs are the cause of so much problems today. Tolerance and apathy, and now they have primitives destroying a once great society.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby SD » Wed Jun 01, 2011 15:55 UTC

Sometimes people can't see the damage they are causing to society, this is especially true in Christian and Islamic circles. They really do think they're doing "good". Also, if you challenge them on things like those vids up there, they write it off as some "rogue element" and how they're "not really like that" etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying every follower of every religion is some riotous fanatical lunatic, but there is a nasty habit of turning a blind eye to this sort of thing and it must be stopped.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby IJ » Wed Jun 01, 2011 15:59 UTC

dyn wrote:Problem is both Christianity and Islam do not agree with your politically correct views.


Religion's don't agree or disagree with any views, it's the people in them that do or don't. Also no religion can get everybody in that religion to agree on anything. So yeah there maybe some Muslims and Christians that are hellbent on domination, but that's not a basis to hate everyone in that religion.

My wife's Muslim and my father is a protestant minister. Can you give me a good reason that you hate both or either of them? I think the fact that my wife married me shows that not all Muslims are hellbent on converting everyone to their faith since God himself would need to come down and tell me in person that eating BBQ spare ribs is a bad thing before I would ever consider giving up pork. Even then it would be debatable. It would need to be an extremely convincing argument.

It's pretty easy to only see the negative aspects of religion, there's plenty of them and when you are outside of a group it's easier to judge than be open minded.
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Re: Proof there is no God

Postby SD » Wed Jun 01, 2011 16:01 UTC

You must never give up pork. Pork is good.
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