killergames mind-numbing?

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killergames mind-numbing?

Postby VAT » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:32 UTC

are killergames mind-numbing or mostly awakener?
also related to the current affairs....
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Re: killergames mind-numbing?

Postby dyn » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:06 UTC

Some can be hell-invoking. Especially DOOM 1 and 2 with thousands of maps and addons. :twisted:

Games in general improve information-processing skills and reflexes, this is why military uses them as well. They also alienate people, desensitize to a degree, but it all depends on how you perceive something and what is your nature like.

This may be interesting: http://www.scoop.it/t/games-for-health
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Re: killergames mind-numbing?

Postby VAT » Tue Oct 16, 2012 22:35 UTC

another thing that I´m curious about is the connection with the addiction to a game
and resultant possibly even irreparable damage to the neuronal network,
respectively the deformation thereof. to what extent how does it influence the
view of the reality?
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Re: killergames mind-numbing?

Postby dyn » Wed Oct 17, 2012 06:54 UTC

Games do not cause any damage to the neural network, this is either FUD or bad science. Even when people do things which are harmful, for example heavy substance abuse, your brain still can reroute and adapt in most cases.

In case of psychopaths brain is already "rerouted" naturally in curious ways, especially with language processing and so on. I don't mean emotional Hollywood psychos, i mean the real psychopaths who score 25-40 at PCL-R test. I am mentioning this because some suggest games contribute to this phenomenon, but i think violent games just help invoke it. People realize they are not the same as others and how laws of society do not exactly apply to them, especially around morality and conscience. This may be next step in evolution, more intelligent and remorseless people, generally with less emotions ... Or it may be adaptation of species to this industrial/technocratic/money-worshiping society where "human element" is a disadvantage and being cold calculating bastard is a plus. Or sexist retard with golden chains singing about booty in the hood. Then society needs laws to tell people what is correct to say and what isn't, because original sense of right and wrong is somehow shifted. Religion doesn't provide much answers, because they also like money and to fuck kids now and then.

I believe if something cataclysmic happens, for example global depression followed by global war this trend will reverse quickly. Of course it will be painful for a lot of people, but it is better than this trend of societal degeneration. Btw, many psychopaths are not that bad, sometimes those are just people who are more courageous and not afraid of consequences when it comes to dealing justice to someone, or to resolve something quickly. In ancient times people like that would be respected and rewarded, today they call them barbarians, thanks to religious indoctrination. Ultimately it will be barbarians who will form new society, free of old dogmas, respecting laws of Nature and Universe, not afraid to kill, without any pity and compassion to those who deserve none.

In short, not only human brain, but the entire society adapts to a new reality pretty fast. This was and still is crucial for survival and most important thing to do, everything else is secondary. It doesn't mean species can degenerate indefinitely, because ultimately this would bring their own destruction.

Could it be games may help people to break free from artificial morality imposed upon society by centuries of religious brainwashing? Even if you are an atheist you still are affected by this, in form of old laws and other dogmas people believe in, not even knowing where they originate from.
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Re: killergames mind-numbing?

Postby VAT » Wed Oct 17, 2012 19:57 UTC

dyn wrote:Games do not cause any damage to the neural network, this is either FUD or bad science. Even when people do things which are harmful, for example heavy substance abuse, your brain still can reroute and adapt in most cases.

In case of psychopaths brain is already "rerouted" naturally in curious ways, especially with language processing and so on. I don't mean emotional Hollywood psychos, i mean the real psychopaths who score 25-40 at PCL-R test. I am mentioning this because some suggest games contribute to this phenomenon, but i think violent games just help invoke it. People realize they are not the same as others and how laws of society do not exactly apply to them, especially around morality and conscience. This may be next step in evolution, more intelligent and remorseless people, generally with less emotions ... Or it may be adaptation of species to this industrial/technocratic/money-worshiping society where "human element" is a disadvantage and being cold calculating bastard is a plus. Or sexist retard with golden chains singing about booty in the hood. Then society needs laws to tell people what is correct to say and what isn't, because original sense of right and wrong is somehow shifted. Religion doesn't provide much answers, because they also like money and to fuck kids now and then.


the next step in evolution is rationality, to take responsibility for other people's belongings, conservation of nature and natural resources convinced that we're all in the same boat.

dyn wrote:I believe if something cataclysmic happens, for example global depression followed by global war this trend will reverse quickly. Of course it will be painful for a lot of people, but it is better than this trend of societal degeneration. Btw, many psychopaths are not that bad, sometimes those are just people who are more courageous and not afraid of consequences when it comes to dealing justice to someone, or to resolve something quickly. In ancient times people like that would be respected and rewarded, today they call them barbarians, thanks to religious indoctrination. Ultimately it will be barbarians who will form new society, free of old dogmas, respecting laws of Nature and Universe, not afraid to kill, without any pity and compassion to those who deserve none.


I believe that the collective consciousness of humans wordwide since a while is busy with bringing people closer together. natural also this is bringing the destructive elements into the arena, knowing that all people together with one voice, with one intention could be rather dangerous for them.
no effort is spared to stop this step in evolution. and therefor we are keeping on the go with consuming a lot of bullshit.
without the slightest effort we succeed in virtual life. and without the slightest effort we are allowed to defeat the evil spirits in wonderful virtual world.
so the coming barbarian must be extremely barbarous to claen this scene. we'll see....

dyn wrote:In short, not only human brain, but the entire society adapts to a new reality pretty fast. This was and still is crucial for survival and most important thing to do, everything else is secondary. It doesn't mean species can degenerate indefinitely, because ultimately this would bring their own destruction.

Could it be games may help people to break free from artificial morality imposed upon society by centuries of religious brainwashing? Even if you are an atheist you still are affected by this, in form of old laws and other dogmas people believe in, not even knowing where they originate from.


here are killer-games highly counter-productive. killing eachother in virtual worlds is no solution, is no game anymore
and even less they do'nt have any liberating influence.
at the present time the collective consciousness is taking all necessary steps in order to relive a new cataclysmic happen(ing).
and then the killgamers are looking rather stupid.....
in this case the mouse seems to be an elusory weapon.....
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Re: killergames mind-numbing?

Postby dyn » Wed Oct 17, 2012 21:11 UTC

Yes i see your point, but this is similar to saying fairy tales for children where good battles evil may produce evil rulers of tomorrow, or offline games, especially role playing genre. People do not just copy this to real life, if anything games enable anyone to vent off and relieve some stress in virtual world, besides improving skills and logic.

Rationality may be needed if people remain on this level, but if mafia of today is gone and people start using zero-point energy, anti-gravity tech and vehicles based on that, then there will be abundance of resources. Consumerism is normal for this period of time, it produces a lot of crap yes, but also motivates people to invent new things. Only problem are those on top who want to restrict this and profit from old technology (oil-based engines, ...) or ineffective medical treatments with real cures suppressed.

New society can be prosperous if it only learns to remove harmful elements in time, or else this cycle will repeat. This is why i don't like religion of today, it teaches unnatural endless tolerance which may ultimately destroy the entire civilization.
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Re: killergames mind-numbing?

Postby VAT » Thu Oct 18, 2012 16:35 UTC

in fairness I must admit that I would had been crazy also about gaming online when I was a child (in the terrible fifties)
and then 40 years later I started with the jump and runners like duke 1 +2....I think the step into duke3D, doom,quake
was a step away from unbloody harmless gaming. and I think the development is heading for playing as realistic as
possible.
maybe the goal of secret societies in the background is heading to blur the boundaries between virtuality and real life.
well that´s the game of soul-grabbers.
how manyy souls on earth are really free?
I started this thread in hope for more than 2 different (ping-pong) viewpoints.
perhaps the one or the other is able to contribute a bit to this question.
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Re: killergames mind-numbing?

Postby dyn » Sat Oct 20, 2012 07:24 UTC

Secret societies do not control that, but they may use it somehow, more or less for global agendas or propaganda, like it was with Black Ops and Anonymous:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2012/05/02/why-is-anonymous-in-the-call-of-duty-black-ops-2-materials/

Denying violent nature won't do you any good as long as you are part beast and part god. :) This is where most mystics are wrong, we need to go forward, not backward. This is akin to complaining about the bumpy road and then deciding to go back to where you start from in order to enjoy "peace and bliss". It may be a solution for some, but it is not what this Universe is about.
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Re: killergames mind-numbing?

Postby Tripredacus » Wed Oct 24, 2012 06:14 UTC

VAT wrote:in fairness I must admit that I would had been crazy also about gaming online when I was a child (in the terrible fifties)
and then 40 years later I started with the jump and runners like duke 1 +2....I think the step into duke3D, doom,quake
was a step away from unbloody harmless gaming. and I think the development is heading for playing as realistic as
possible.
maybe the goal of secret societies in the background is heading to blur the boundaries between virtuality and real life.
well that´s the game of soul-grabbers.
how manyy souls on earth are really free?
I started this thread in hope for more than 2 different (ping-pong) viewpoints.
perhaps the one or the other is able to contribute a bit to this question.


The problem you are running into is better games vs sales. The real problem is that gore games are what sells big buck. All these FPS that are so popular on consoles really dictate the market. Even the Third-angle types. Which is weird because everyone on PC who plays FPS knows console FPS players couldn't stand a chance. Somehow inferior console FPS are more popular that their PC counterparts which are far superior in gameplay and graphics.

But this is only part of the problem. There were some increases in realism in games over the years, but as far as console driven types its mostly interaction type things with mics and speakers. Other realism things are still totally PC based but missed because somehow PC is seen as being inferior, probably because of sales numbers and kids having mediocre consoles instead of mid-range PCs.

What kind of realism is there really? Blood textures, I remember that in Quake 2. What about the dismemberments of Soldier of Fortune? What of the deformation of Red Faction? These were real realism improvements that got buried in history.

The real issue you are talking about is that all the big time games, the popular ones on magazine covers, in TV commercials are these Action or FPS games that really haven't evolved much. The real problem is that the market "seems" to be dominated by these types of games and the others are left to the side. Where are the realistic games in the adventure series, or the strategic series? They weren't made because they weren't profitable. Can you imagine Phantasmagoria or Albion being made with these standards? No because the budgets aren't there. That's not what sells, so no one is going to put the money into hi-res textures, cinematics and whatever else for those games and it sucks.

Games are not like they were in the 90s, but there is hope in the indie scene. The only problem with the indie scene is that they seem to gravitate to the pay communities (PSN, Steam, etc) which is understandable... but it is not what we grew up with.

End of story, times change. Change with it or be left behind.
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Re: killergames mind-numbing?

Postby dyn » Wed Oct 24, 2012 09:52 UTC

Tripredacus wrote:What kind of realism is there really? Blood textures, I remember that in Quake 2. What about the dismemberments of Soldier of Fortune? What of the deformation of Red Faction? These were real realism improvements that got buried in history.


I am going to answer the rest, but i can't wait to post and watch this video... :twisted:

Soldier of Fortune 1 - Platinum Edition - Gameplay [HD]

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Re: killergames mind-numbing?

Postby dyn » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:51 UTC

Tripredacus wrote:The problem you are running into is better games vs sales. The real problem is that gore games are what sells big buck. All these FPS that are so popular on consoles really dictate the market. Even the Third-angle types. Which is weird because everyone on PC who plays FPS knows console FPS players couldn't stand a chance. Somehow inferior console FPS are more popular that their PC counterparts which are far superior in gameplay and graphics.


This is the reason those are more popular, simple to play, generally no mysterious hardware issues and game itself is designed to be fun -- or else they wouldn't be able to sell it! Violent games sell, but also other genres can be very popular, and besides consoles you have big market now with mobile devices and browser-based games, most popular there are very simple, usually of non-violent type. Simplicity enables developer to focus on gameplay and fun, something many forget while trying to compete for most "advanced" product, which then plays like shit and people forget about it after a few days. Look at DOOM, it was revolutionary but also simple, this is why there is around 10000 maps/addons for it, relatively simple to create and -- most important -- fun to play.

Other stuff about games being mind-numbing or desensitizing, i don't think there is any adverse effect except social isolation and yes, people may get desensitized a bit, but then again it's not like there is a perfect world out there, so violence in games is not that alien after all.
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Re: killergames mind-numbing?

Postby Tripredacus » Thu Oct 25, 2012 02:37 UTC

dyn wrote:Other stuff about games being mind-numbing or desensitizing, i don't think there is any adverse effect except social isolation and yes, people may get desensitized a bit, but then again it's not like there is a perfect world out there, so violence in games is not that alien after all.


That is one thing that all the "talkers" say is that this violence in video games desensitizes the players to violence. In video games, I agree. The problem is that these talkers do not play games themselves. Maybe they have read a review, a description, seen a screenshot, seen a video, but they do not play these games. We are desensitized to violence in games because we play violent games. Gamers have an understanding that they are just playing games, and that games are different than real life. We can see these things in video games but it makes no comparison if we see these things in real life. This is what is not understood. The talkers know about the programming model set by television (and recently by social media, mostly driven by TV programmed folks) and figure that games must have a similar effect. It does not but they do not see it because they are on the outside.

Its really the same argument for those in politics that try to censor the internet with PIPA, CISPA or ACTA type things. These people do not use the internet like the common man does. They have no idea what they are doing and that is why there is so much force against it.

But back to games... to game players it is like living in a favorite book or a movie. In games we can all be super heroes, we can all be soldiers and we can all be criminals or deranged individuals. All gamers know that it is a make believe, and no one gets hurt. They know the difference between the game and real life.

Those few individuals who break from those realisations, those who commit crimes because of games or movies are the same types 100 years ago that got some idea from a book. These individuals would have been the same in another time, given that the right things were said or shown, there is no difference. This entire topic might be some way to place blame on our actions, rather than taking responsibility for them.
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Re: killergames mind-numbing?

Postby dyn » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:36 UTC

Yes, but games are not totally isolated from the real world either. For instance, type of games one plays can shows certain character traits and how that person thinks. Of course there are differences between players, for example one may always play reckless in full frontal assault mode, while others will be more strategic, study maps and try to get all the armor before attacking. And there are people who will never play violent FPS since they see those as being too primitive or barbaric. At the same time cretins like that will vote for laws which oppress freedom of speech/expression (basic human rights), thinking they know better. It will only backfire on them later.

Another thing about games is ability to improve skills, not only aim but also coordination, situational awareness and other stuff army values. This is why they are investing a lot into new combat simulators and similar. One aspect of this is like with flight simulators, to work on skill, but there is another perhaps more dangerous aspect, people acclimate to this new reality and adapt to certain ways of thinking, they always do that. This is why you can see soldiers from Iraq sometimes describing war as playing a video game, of course if they are far away and relatively safe. Those who are not so lucky can develop PTSD, which is more or less normal reaction, and games can help with that as well, check this:

Virtual Iraq': the video game as therapy



So if games can be used in therapy successfully, and in training as well, then we could say games do affect you in certain ways. Of course most people can differentiate between reality and fantasy, so you don't go out and just kill annoying people. I think one can differentiate between both, but both affect you nevertheless.
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Re: killergames mind-numbing?

Postby VAT » Tue Nov 13, 2012 00:27 UTC

time is no money - time is life.
life is no game - life is development of character.
now time has come for the next bloody knowledge that time and gaming seem to be another illusion in human being.
the message is that we are what we want to be in game, in future, in next level.
crackbrained like all the earlier historical eras on their deathbed....
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