It's JUST a theory people!

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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby SD » Sat Sep 14, 2013 17:08 UTC

Wubsy wrote:Can I jump in this hell

Yes, you can :)

What do you think about ancient aliens?


Well, if we ever find any I'll have something to say about it because it will be interesting! Till then I'll simply say that I think it's incredibly unlikely that life hasn't evolved somewhere else out there too. It evolved here, so as long as that's possible - so is the rest. I don't see any compelling evidence to suggest that we've been "visited" by them though.
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby fallout » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:51 UTC

Ladies and Gentlemen

I must enter this conversation, finally. I know the original theme was about "faith" and what we wish to believe. But I must draw your
attention to the link below. It will give everyone an insight as to the validity of religion and any "faith" that one believes in. Keep
inmind, the distantces and likelihood of anything ( life ) being there, let alone "visiting " anyone anywhere.


http://www.space.com/3728-major-discovery-planet-harbor-water-life.html

I welcome any and all discussions on this.

:yes:
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby Fierfaks » Sat Sep 21, 2013 21:00 UTC

The professor at university decided to prove once that God is the myth and asked to the students such question. - Everything, what exists, is created by God? One student safely answered: - Yes, it is created by God. - God created everything? - the professor asked. - Yes, the sir, - answered the student. The professor asked: - If God created everything, God means created the evil, time it exists. And according to that principle that our affairs define ourselves, God means there is an evil. The student became silent, having heard such answer. The professor was very happy with himself. It boasted to students that it once again proved that the belief in God is the myth. Other student raised a hand and told: - I can ask you a question, the professor? - Certainly, - the professor answered. The student rose and asked: - The professor, cold exists? - What a question! Certainly, exists. To you it was never cold? Students laughed over a question of the young man. The young man answered: - Actually, the sir, colds doesn't exist. According to physics laws, that we consider as cold actually is absence of heat. The person or a subject it is possible to study about, whether it has or transfers energy. The absolute zero (-460 degrees by Fahrenheit) is total absence of heat. All matter becomes inert and incapable to react at this temperature. The cold doesn't exist. We created this word for the description of that we feel in the absence of heat. The student continued: - The professor, darkness exists? The professor answered: - Certainly, exists. The student answered: - You are again wrong, the sir. Darkness also doesn't exist. Darkness actually is absence of light. We can study light, but not darkness. We can use Newton's prism to spread out this world to a set of flowers and to study various lengths of waves of each color. You can't measure darkness. The simple ray of light can rush into the world of darkness and shine it. How you can learn how dark any space is? You measure what quantity of light is presented. Isn't it? Darkness is concept which the person uses to describe that occurs in the absence of light. Eventually, the young man asked the professor: - The sir, the evil exists? This time uncertainly, the professor answered: - Certainly, as I already told. We see it every day. Cruelty between people, a set of crimes and violence worldwide. These examples are not than other as evil manifestation. The student answered it: - The evil doesn't exist, the sir, or at least it doesn't exist for him. The evil it is simple absence of God. It is similar to darkness and cold - the word created by the person to describe absence of God. God didn't create the evil. The evil it not belief or love which exist as light and heat. The evil is result of absence in heart of the person of Divine love. It like cold which comes, when there is no heat, or like darkness which comes, when there is no light.


8-)
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby SD » Sun Sep 22, 2013 14:19 UTC

Fierfaks wrote:The evil it is simple absence of God.


I've heard this a thousand times, and this (up there ^) is where it goes wrong. It's referred to as a P.R.A.T.T - Point Refuted A Thousand Times.
You're appealing to a presupposition, which you can't justify. In order to appeal to God's absence as the cause of evil, you first need to prove God even exists.

3
2
1
GO!
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby SD » Sun Sep 22, 2013 14:22 UTC

And Fallout, I'm going to have a look at your link later today, haven't had a chance since you posted it :)
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby fallout » Sun Sep 22, 2013 19:05 UTC

Thankyou SD. I can only hope you follow my 'train' of thought.


8-D
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby Fierfaks » Sun Sep 22, 2013 19:13 UTC

I am not going to prove. I am not a preacher. I don't turn into belief. Having come in shit you will tell: no, it not shit. You will trust when you will try. :yes:
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby SD » Sun Sep 22, 2013 19:39 UTC

Terribly sorry but I have no idea what you're saying :)

Having come in shit


This bit made me laugh though :DD
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby Fierfaks » Sun Sep 22, 2013 20:25 UTC

You will be told - shit. You will tell - I don't trust. It is necessary to try. :lol:
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby SD » Sun Sep 22, 2013 20:28 UTC

Still no idea :/ - I appreciate it's just a language barrier though.
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby fallout » Sun Sep 22, 2013 22:18 UTC

First off, the link represents the distances that one would have to take in order for "us" to be visited. And if the closet planet
is 20 light years ( 1 light year - 186,000 miles per sec ) away, and if it had "life" on it, would it be capable of lightspeed in
order to visit us? Highly unlikely. And if there are other Class M planets like ours, of those and consider their distances, could it
be capable of lightspeed? Highly unlikely. My point being, is if we are to believe "an entity" created the "Heavens and Earth",
then why are we witnessing in the universe, other star systems with the potential of having life. And to make it even more
confusing, why would another life form ever consider coming here. And how would they even know we are here, let alone
travel all that way. With all this evidence, it makes one sit back and think of what to believe.

:o
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby NIko_bellic » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:31 UTC

It is interesting to see how people are trying to prove something to each other. In my opinion, the existence of a God thing unprovable . There is no evidence that it exists or not . Believers refer to the Bible as proof of God's existence , they say that it is the Word of God, but I do not see any reason to trust the book , in which the accuracy of the events and statements can not be verified . People who have survived , being close to death , are beginning to think that this is a divine intervention , but did not want to admit that it could just be a coincidence. Perhaps faith in God , in part , be explained from a psychological point of view. People like to think that , look after them higher power, hoping that if they should believe and pray , God will do its best to help them and save them in a difficult time, but in life, alas , this is not happening. Others, seeing what is happening on Earth : terrorist attacks, wars, genocides , natural disasters as a result of which killed thousands of people, are asking: Where is God? If he is infinitely loves people , why did he not save innocent lives ? In my view , these concerns are legitimate . I asked these questions believers and received about the same answers : "It is destined ", " It's their time", " is God's will ." Atheists also need proof of God's existence , but they can not be called hard to prove that it is not. I do not see anything wrong or funny , if a person believes, but it seems to me ridiculous if it begins debate on the principle of "tell me something and I'll prove to you that it is not", especially if there is no conclusive evidence.
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby SD » Mon Sep 23, 2013 16:17 UTC

There is no requirement to disprove the claim. The burden of proof is on those who make the claim, not those disputing it. It's not really even possible to prove non-existence - this is why we need positive evidence in favour of existence, not negative evidence in favour of non-existence. Believers usually don't like the fact that the burden rests on their shoulders, but it's kinda tough shit. If someone wants to insist that 'disproof' is required as opposed to proof in favour, then they must 'disprove' all the gods they don't believe in. Which they can't do. I can't prove Odin isn't real, but the absence of evidence for his existence kinda speaks volumes, same goes for every single other god type entity religious folk have dreamed up over the millenia.
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby Fierfaks » Mon Sep 23, 2013 19:24 UTC

God not material essence. It can't be seen and touched. It is present at everything and everywhere. 8-)
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby NIko_bellic » Mon Sep 23, 2013 19:33 UTC

Fierfaks wrote:God not material essence. It can't be seen and touched. It is present at everything and everywhere. 8-)

yes? and in what ways?
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby fallout » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:42 UTC

Gentlemen

The logistics and reality speak for themselves. For someone to "believe" that "something" created all that is,
the complexity of what everything is, is to emense for one "enity" to have created. Therefore, speaking
reletive and logistically, natural evolution is the sane and mature way of explaining why we are "what" we
are.
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby SD » Tue Sep 24, 2013 17:44 UTC

Fierfaks wrote:God not material essence. It can't be seen and touched. It is present at everything and everywhere. 8-)


So the universe is God? We already have a name for that ('Universe') so there's no need to sticky on additional labels now is there? :D
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby SD » Tue Sep 24, 2013 17:45 UTC

fallout wrote:natural evolution is the sane and mature way of explaining why we are "what" we are.


Correct. Not only is it sane and mature, it's also very well evidenced in a predictable and more importantly - testable manner.
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby fallout » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:47 UTC

Now that we have resolved the "entity" issue, can we agree on the theory of this planet being "visited"?
Which brings me to that link I posted. Consider the distances, the likelyhood of other life capable of such
a feat, and why would they even know we were here.

:sceptic3:
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby SD » Thu Sep 26, 2013 16:13 UTC

fallout wrote:Now that we have resolved the "entity" issue, can we agree on the theory of this planet being "visited"?
Which brings me to that link I posted. Consider the distances, the likelyhood of other life capable of such
a feat, and why would they even know we were here.

:sceptic3:


As per my earlier post, I think the chances of life evolving on other planets, even ones we don't know exist due to distance, is fairly high. It's certainly in the realms of plausibility at the very least, on account of the fact that life evolved on this planet. So we know it can happen. There is, however, no evidence (at least that I'm aware of, not that I've studied this in great depth) to indicate that we have been visited. It's often assumed that any "alien" life would be super intelligent, far more so than us, and have teleportation technology and warp-speed travel in shiny space ships. That could be the case. On the other hand life on other planets (should it exist at all) could equally as likely be single celled organisms. Depends how long ago it started evolving, and that evolution would occur in accordance with the life-forms environment, We gotta find it first :)
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby Wubsy » Tue Oct 01, 2013 00:51 UTC

SD, it depends on what would be considered as evidence..
And fallout, we have to assume that they are far more advanced. Why did they come and why didn't they return is beyond evidence and facts and frankly, it doesn't really matter, as we can't prove anything on this matter. And speaking of which, it's exactly the same thing for religions: you can't prove or disprove. It is, was and will be an endless debate. So, again, why bother (like Niko said)? (Actually, I do have an answer for this, but it is beyond the scope of this conversation :) ). Believe what you want to believe. So many crimes against everything and everyone just because of this. The thing is, it is in the human nature to be "against" someone for having a different view on things. Why? We don't know for sure yet. Very few individuals (at a global scale) get along with "differences".
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby SD » Tue Oct 01, 2013 16:34 UTC

Evidence is that which is concordant with the facts, or a body of facts. Facts are units of data or pieces of information which are either not disputed, or are indisputable because they can be objectively verified to be true. Truth is that which conforms to reality. There is no need to disprove any religion, the burden of proof is on those who claim their religion to be true.
Why bother? A frequently asked question, wubs. Which brings me neatly to the bit about "believe what you want" -
I believe it's fun and morally good to rape babies. Now, I must dash because I have things to do :)
See the problem? It does matter whether things are actually true or not, a hell of a lot more than whether people fancy believing them or not. I'll dig you up some facts and figures if you like, but a number of children die every year because their parents deny them medical treatment. Why do they do this? Because they believe that if they whisper into the clouds for long enough a magic juju fairy will cure their cancer. A magic juju fairy will not do any such thing, well, if one existed it might. Which brings us back to evidence...

And btw, nothing is beyond the scope of this conversation, you can post anything you like. If it would be off topic here you are welcome to start another thread for discussion of said topic.
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby NIko_bellic » Tue Oct 01, 2013 22:00 UTC

Wubsy wrote:Believe what you want to believe. So many crimes against everything and everyone just because of this. The thing is, it is in the human nature to be "against" someone for having a different view on things. Why? We don't know for sure yet. Very few individuals (at a global scale) get along with "differences".

Surely noticed.
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Re: It's JUST a theory people!

Postby Wubsy » Sat Oct 12, 2013 01:32 UTC

I was talking about the alien thingy with the facts.. :)
Now, about that "believing". Yes, I couldn't agree more on that. In those specific cases where one is insane enough to believe such things, then yes, that is a problem. But, as long as the individual in question is not hurting anyone, then I don't see the problem. Indeed, take that to a global scale and yes, then we have a major issue, but alas, that "battle" has ended a long time ago (with reality losing in favor of control and deception). As the way an agent in The Matrix put it: "We're not here because we're free, we're here because we're NOT free."
Having said that, there are still people that think about others' wellbeing and are genuinely kind, but the so called society, as it is, doesn't provide...
I've seen how things work in this world. I've seen enough. Things that some think of them as impossible. And through all of this, trust me when I say that debating religion is pointless when you're doing that with foolish enough people to believe such things as fairies curing their cancer.
Like I said, that "battle" is lost.

Note: What I've said might sound a little like a mash of ideas and losing some of the coherency/train of thoughts in the process, but that's because I wanted to say a lot more and there are still ideas I'm working on. I'm writing a paper about some of those ideas. Work in Progress! :P
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