Quake 3 Dedicated questions

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Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby Tripredacus » Sun Jul 25, 2010 18:11 UTC

Its been a long time since my Q3/Shoutcast server was online, and I mean a long time. Originally, it served up tourney and deathmatch and SuperHeroes DM before PB came out, I'm thinking it was last online in 2003? The original config at the time was running a 233MHz CPU and something less than 512MB RAM. Its had a LOT of hardware changes since those days, basically everything is different now except for the hard drive and the case.

Currently it can't access the internet but I am concerned about its ability to be a server once it can. First I'll post the config, then I'll post the questions.

board: Intel D850MV
RAM: 768MB RDRAM PC800
CPU: Pentium 4 2.0GHz
Video: ATI Radeon 9600 XT AGP
Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Live PCI
HDDs: 20GB WD, 20GB Maxtor
CD: 48x Compaq "Spare" CD-ROM ATAPI
PSU: Antec 400W ATX

This system has no performance issues at all, despite the OS on it being Windows 98. In the previous hardware it was able to stay on for months without rebooting. I just know that is going to be the first thing you guys would point out. This isn't a standard Windows 98, its a hacked OS that supports things like USB 2.0 and transparencies, for example:

Image

So here are my questions:
1. Is it wise to run a server that is connected to the internet via Wireless G or is this just a real bad idea?
2. based on the specs provided, what is the maximum number of clients you think it would support?

If you have any other things that would be good for me to know... I do not know how much things have changed since when my server config was last used. Like for example, what do I have to do about PB?
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby dyn » Sun Jul 25, 2010 18:25 UTC

On this hardware you will get better performance with XP. If you really insist on 9x technology for some reason, then consider Windows ME, because it's compiled for Pentium-class CPUs, while 9x is compiled for 486 and it is not utilizing your CPU fully. XP and even ME will run faster and they are more secure, with better memory management.

P4 2.0 can support >32 clients easily. More than enough for Q3 server(s). Only problem may be wifi, if it's unstable.

PB updates itself, but sometimes it needs too much time to do it, or it even fails to update for one reason or another. In that case PB Setup is easiest and most convenient way to update it: http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=pbsetup.php ... After that PB will keep itself updated.
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby AG » Mon Jul 26, 2010 17:45 UTC

win98 / wifi is perfect for servers.
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby Tripredacus » Mon Jul 26, 2010 23:14 UTC

AG wrote:win98 / wifi is perfect for servers.


Well that is why I ask the questions because back when it was running I was on cable but almost half the players who played were on dial up. I didn't know if most people having broadband (ie computers faster than the server) would be an issue nowadays.
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby dyn » Mon Jul 26, 2010 23:22 UTC

Broadband is not an issue, because game server has limited rate per player and limited fps.
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby Tripredacus » Wed Nov 24, 2010 22:01 UTC

I'll get this blasted thing online even if I have to drill holes in walls/ceilings and run cat6.

Actual system is fine but still working on getting internet access to it. In other news, I also have a digital signage box I may have to put dedicated on if I can't get the 98 online, at least that one runs WinXP... Except I still need to get the activation working :(

Since it is old news that you can migrate a q3arena install just by copying the folder over, does the same go for the dedicated component?
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby 1UnRaTeD1 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 23:12 UTC

so win 98 only use up to 233mhz idle? i got my 800mhz cpu and i know its gotta use atleast most of it when running games..but im sure idle is at 200 to 233 if im correct if not less
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby Tripredacus » Thu Nov 25, 2010 00:09 UTC

I'm not really sure how to tell how much is being used.

I'll probably do some more work on Friday. The other system (I have two Acer Power 1000s) I started on also. One does not turn on and the other does. These things use full size drives, not notebook ones like I thought. They also use the full size (old) notebook WiFi slots, so the WiFi card I got for it will not work. I swapped the memory from the "bad" one to the "good" one... about an hour later I realised i had gotten the "good" and "bad" mixed up! :bleh:

Since these Acer units have a DVI-D connector on it, I can hook it up to the HD TV, which means it is within cabling distance to my router! I still need to figure out what BIOS is on it, find the appropriate update and hack that and (well backup the current BIOS) update to the hacked BIOS. Presuming I can then get into Windows, I will have to disable the software from calling out to its server and see what I can do at that point.
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby AG » Thu Nov 25, 2010 04:03 UTC

this thread is some kind of tech-enthusiast parody, right? is that why it makes pretty much no sense?
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby Tripredacus » Thu Nov 25, 2010 04:28 UTC

Probably. Maybe I should write a book about it.
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby dyn » Fri Nov 26, 2010 21:07 UTC

http://www.memtest.org/ -- for testing memory
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby Tripredacus » Wed Dec 08, 2010 01:45 UTC

Memtest is not very reliable for even current systems. We use v4.1 at work, and it never runs memory at the correct speed or CAS for their tests. Yes it finds problems, but can actually do many passes without error on bad RAM because of this. Like all tools for PC, a mix is the best rather than relying on only one.

Windows Protection error on Win98 caused by either a) hardware resources being exhausted by adding additional card or b) Win98 not supposed (aka there is a patch and its news to me) to work properly with 512MB+ RAM.

So backup plan is use the Acer system that actually DOES work, but needs recoat CPU paste. If I can't get the OA to work (I'm guessing it is an Acer Windows XP which I can fix), I got an NFR of Server 2003 Enterprise from work I can install on there just in case. Worst case scenario (like not having F6 drivers for 2003) is to hack the BIOS for it to install the XP I have on hand.

So things took a little longer, plus last week I was on a business trip, not sure if I mentioned that here. Also why I wasn't online last week. After OS situation is handled, need to figure out how to use the mod... Might make a new thread about that but we'll see. :)
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby dyn » Wed Dec 08, 2010 07:17 UTC

Memtest is simply using whatever you set in the BIOS, it has no code or ability to change RAM timings. All tests will run at same speed as configured in the BIOS, even if it reports them wrong. There are alternative utils for testing RAM, you don't need to use Memtest, however wrong timings reported are not that common and tests are still valid. A lot of Linux distributions have RAM testing option @ boot menu.

Windows 98 is outdated system, compiled for i486 which is 22 year old architecture, from 1989. Besides all sorts of compatibility issues with modern hardware, it is also not compiled to take advantage of new opcodes and architectural changes in modern CPUs, so it will run slower even when fully optimized. Better alternative is stripped down XP, or simply XP, or any Linux which is compiled for at least i586 (Pentium) or preferably i686 (Pentium Pro/P2). There are many Linux distros which are lightweight and offer excellent system stability and security, transforming old hardware into capable office / surfing machines, with OS which is supported and not vulnerable to attacks. Windows 98 is not supported by Microsoft anymore, and there are many security exploits for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions
http://distrowatch.com/
For lightweight you can also try popular distros with some light window manager, for instance Mint LXDE or Xubuntu, etc.. Just make sure they are compiled for modern CPUs, i586+.
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby Tripredacus » Fri Dec 10, 2010 02:08 UTC

EDIT: To reply about memtest. Even on systems that have the BIOS set properly (or even custom settings), memtest almost always reports the wrong speed and CAS. Even if it reports the correct SPD info on the screen. Of course, this is just on CDBoot, so I have not looked at the Configuration menu that appears on the bottom of the screen. We have also not looked into building automated CDs for this, just using the stock ISO.

I do have Q3 linux (retail) copy someplace. I always knew that one, as I had 2 Q3 copies and the one key didn't work for the Windows one, on install anyways. Not sure why they cares about the CD Key if the game lets you type in random chars for it.

The Acer/signage box has a heating issue. We (at my company or what is left of it) worked on it today. One of the screw holes in the board is stripped. Even with clean/new paste the system over heated. I did determine that it did not have an Acer OS on it, but Disty so that OS is worthless to me. Since my company is in transition from being in business to not being in business, there is a lot of software up for free... NFRs to you. The one I got (some other neat stuff) was Server 2003 Enterprise which may be a good fit for that system. I also need to replace the backside-board mounting bracket for the CPU heat sink.

If all goes well (I got some other cool stuff too) I might be able to get both the Acer box and my 98 online. If the 98 can get online, I may just put the Acer into the DMZ and install Apache on it for fun, but obviously block port 80 out on it. I may also test to see which system is best at serving Q3, the newer Acer system (1GB RAM with Athlon 64 3000+ CPU) or the 98, and just run Shoutcast on the other.... Apache will be on the Acer if I can get it to work regardless.
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby AG » Fri Dec 10, 2010 16:02 UTC

...
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby IriDeck » Fri Dec 10, 2010 17:13 UTC

AG, I saw what you did there. :)
I also use Win98 and Wifi. It's my firewall at work.
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby IriDeck » Fri Dec 10, 2010 17:15 UTC

Trip: Use WinXP Beast Edition. It's all you need. Really.
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5062616/TinyXP_Beast_Edition
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby Tripredacus » Sat Dec 11, 2010 04:35 UTC

IriDeck wrote:Trip: Use WinXP Beast Edition. It's all you need. Really.
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5062616/TinyXP_Beast_Edition


Sorry this would ruin my rep! (:

Anyways, the Acer could not be saved. Ever after a complete rebuild (its very hard to service stuff that isn't servicable) the overheating problem did not go away. Grant, I extended it from 3 minutes to 1 hour but what do you expect from garbage PCs? In other news, I pulled 2 more things from the garbage bin today (well more, but lucky me to be working for a company going out of business)... which was an AOpen Digital Engine, which is ready to go, and a wireless G access point. So in the end (I still have more work to do) I will have both my 98 and a "server" online at the same time.

My choice now is what to do with the DE. I will install Apache on it, but show I put the dedicated on that or the 98? I may do some tests with both to find out. These will be default setting (or old setting) tests just to see how they each react. The wireless could be a big factor in this. The 98 will go through the AP but the DE will be wired...
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby AG » Mon Dec 13, 2010 16:47 UTC

after you've finished this massive project of yours, let me know if you feel like you wasted your time.
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Re: Quake 3 Dedicated questions

Postby Tripredacus » Tue Dec 14, 2010 00:53 UTC

AG wrote:after you've finished this massive project of yours, let me know if you feel like you wasted your time.


Ok. I will include a prologue in my book as well. I will compare the value of time spent on it versus reading your posts. This alone could put it in the top 10!

Seriously dude, what is your deal?
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