Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

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Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

Postby donkey kong » Fri Nov 18, 2011 14:23 UTC

I know that the connections originated in Brazil are bad, with ping around 200, and I myself have often played with ping around 270. Often other players complain, and usually I go to spectator mode.

But, in the last 3 or 4 weeks, I can rarely connect to the server. Vogon servers no longer appear on the master list. To connect, I need to manually enter the address, and even then, most of the time the message "no or bad challeng for your address" appears.

I noticed that several Brazilian players also can no longer connect. So for us we should not be without playing, I set up a small vogon server to 8 players, and me and my Brazilian friends, and even some players from other South American countries, we can play with pretty good ping.

The problem is that to me was bad (and I think for others as well), because as the server is on my pc, my ping is 0. And in this case, I take a tremendous advantage over other players. Also, I like to play with players from outside of Brazil (craij, chaos, spartusa, misskitty, hey nathan, gee, tiedfor3rd, lordenki, lagartoh, anotherplayer, king Quake, unrated, and many others).

So, my question is: was there any change from the Vogon servers? Or is there any restriction regarding the minimum ping ? Or in relation to Brazilian players (and others South American players) ?
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Re: Brazilian players

Postby SD » Fri Nov 18, 2011 16:51 UTC

There is no max-ping limit on Vogon servers. What version of Q3 are you running? Hit the tilde to drop the console and it will say in the bottom right hand corner. As far as I can remember nothing has changed this end. Which servers are you trying to connect to? UK or US?
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Re: Brazilian players

Postby craij » Fri Nov 18, 2011 17:57 UTC

dk,
vogon has dropped from my multi-player (server) listing as well.
so i just connect direct: q3.vogon.vg
its probably just some IP/DNS situation. it has happened before, it may happen again.
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Re: Brazilian players

Postby donkey kong » Fri Nov 18, 2011 20:37 UTC

SD, since I started playing here, I'm using ioquake 1.36 without trouble.

And craij, i'm trying every day connect direct using q3.vogon.vg and uk.vogon.vg. I managed to connect only two times this week. All other times the message "no or bad challenge for your address" appears.

But if nothing has changed, i will continue trying. Meanwhile, we will continue playing on my small (vogon like) server.

Thanks to friends for answers.
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Re: Brazilian players

Postby Anymouse » Fri Nov 18, 2011 23:44 UTC

Same thing for me. For the last week and a half or so, no Vogon US in the master server list. Sometime by entering Q3.Vogon.VG manually I can get in, but most of the time not. Nothing on this end has changed. Oh, and I'm eastern US.
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Re: Brazilian players

Postby donkey kong » Sat Nov 19, 2011 03:30 UTC

Hurra ! Finally, today I could play on both servers!
q3.vogon does not yet appear in the list of servers, but even so I could connect directly. I think that now everything will normalize.

Wait for me. I'm back.
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Re: Brazilian players

Postby dyn » Sat Nov 19, 2011 09:28 UTC

donkey kong wrote:I know that the connections originated in Brazil are bad, with ping around 200, and I myself have often played with ping around 270. Often other players complain, and usually I go to spectator mode.


No, don't do that! First, they have no right to demand you go to spectator mode or even disconnect because of your ping. This is nonsense and it won't be tolerated -- if this was the problem i would limit max ping years ago, but it really isn't. You can connect with 800 ping and play, and others won't be affected in any way. Tell them ping is not influencing their connection so they can go to hell.

But, in the last 3 or 4 weeks, I can rarely connect to the server. Vogon servers no longer appear on the master list. To connect, I need to manually enter the address, and even then, most of the time the message "no or bad challeng for your address" appears.

I noticed that several Brazilian players also can no longer connect. So for us we should not be without playing, I set up a small vogon server to 8 players, and me and my Brazilian friends, and even some players from other South American countries, we can play with pretty good ping.

The problem is that to me was bad (and I think for others as well), because as the server is on my pc, my ping is 0. And in this case, I take a tremendous advantage over other players. Also, I like to play with players from outside of Brazil (craij, chaos, spartusa, misskitty, hey nathan, gee, tiedfor3rd, lordenki, lagartoh, anotherplayer, king Quake, unrated, and many others).

So, my question is: was there any change from the Vogon servers? Or is there any restriction regarding the minimum ping ? Or in relation to Brazilian players (and others South American players) ?


Yes, server is not on the master list, but it has nothing to do with your connection. We will put it back on the list soon. UK is already back.

It is very important to report any problem like this, i would like to know what happens, if anything, when you are trying to connect. Is connection ever initiated? Also try uk.vogon.vg, for a test, maybe only US server is like that because of the new firewall rules (nothing to do with you or any Q3 player).
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Re: Brazilian players

Postby dyn » Sat Nov 19, 2011 09:33 UTC

Anymouse wrote:Same thing for me. For the last week and a half or so, no Vogon US in the master server list.

Yes, this is "normal", for a limited time we took it off all sites and master server list.

Anymouse wrote:[...]. Sometime by entering Q3.Vogon.VG manually I can get in, but most of the time not. Nothing on this end has changed. Oh, and I'm eastern US.

Is this only for the US server? Can you connect without problems to ctf.vogon.vg and uk.vogon.vg?

Also, US server q3.vogon.vg has address 184.82.87.52:27960, so you can use that to connect. But, please test with hostname as well (*.vogon.vg), so we can pinpoint this problem and resolve it.
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Re: Brazilian players [q3 connect problems]

Postby dyn » Sat Nov 19, 2011 09:42 UTC

I tried connecting ~10 times and i think i noticed slight delay at "Awaiting connection..." screen. Interestingly enough, connect was instant at first, only subsequent retries were slower. I think i know what it could be, but i will do some packet analysis first, because i like doing that. On Linux you can do it too, with TCPDump:
Code: Select all
 
tcpdump -nfXv udp and udp[8:4] = 0xFFFFFFFF and dst port 27960
-- OR --
tcpdump -nfXv udp and udp[8:4] = 0xFFFFFFFF and ! src net <server ip/cidr_range>

0xFFFFFFFF = "command packet", they differ from normal game packets in this header and command which follows, it can be connect, getstatus, getinfo xxx, disconnect and some more

Ideally connect time from, "Awaiting connection..." to "Awaiting gamestate..." should be under 0.5 sec, and under 1 sec even if you have very high ping! So far i got this initially, but then i had connect lag for about 3 sec.
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Re: Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

Postby dyn » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:11 UTC

04:47:46.415346 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 110, id 6578, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 44) - first packet
+++
04:47:46.548051 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 110, id 6579, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 302) - connect packet

548,051 - 415,346 = 132,705 ~= 0.132 sec or 132 ping (normal for q3, 107-125 is my real ping to the US east coast, depends on routing/server)

...And then this crap, at first attempt it was OK, @ second attempt client had to re-send connect after 3 sec timeout:

[email protected]:/var/log# tcpdump -nfXv udp and udp[8:4] = 0xFFFFFFFF and src host my.ip
tcpdump: listening on eth0, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), capture size 65535 bytes
05:01:21.709778 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 110, id 10840, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 44)
my.ip.27960 > 184.82.87.52.27960: UDP, length 16
0x0000: 4500 002c 2a58 0000 6e11 e084 59d4 d889 E..,*X..n...Y...
0x0010: b852 5734 6d38 6d38 0018 65fe ffff ffff .RW4m8m8..e.....
0x0020: 6765 7463 6861 6c6c 656e 6765 0000 getchallenge..
05:01:21.836538 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 110, id 10842, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 302)

-- disconnected so i can try again --

05:01:25.514278 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 110, id 10861, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 44)
my.ip.27960 > 184.82.87.52.27960: UDP, length 16
0x0000: 4500 002c 2a6d 0000 6e11 e06f 59d4 d889 E..,*m..n..oY...
0x0010: b852 5734 6d38 6d38 0018 65fe ffff ffff .RW4m8m8..e.....
0x0020: 6765 7463 6861 6c6c 656e 6765 0000 getchallenge..
05:01:25.642687 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 110, id 10862, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 303)
my.ip.27960 > 184.82.87.52.27960: UDP, length 275
0x0000: 4500 012f 2a6e 0000 6e11 df6b 59d4 d889 E../*n..n..kY...
0x0010: b852 5734 6d38 6d38 011b 4444 ffff ffff .RW4m8m8..DD....
0x0020: 636f 6e6e 6563 7420 0154 4474 308e 050c connect..TDt0...

.... nothing ....

05:01:28.642511 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 110, id 10871, offset 0, flags [none], proto UDP (17), length 303)
my.ip.27960 > 184.82.87.52.27960: UDP, length 275
0x0000: 4500 012f 2a77 0000 6e11 df62 59d4 d889 E../*w..n..bY...
0x0010: b852 5734 6d38 6d38 011b 4444 ffff ffff .RW4m8m8..DD....
0x0020: 636f 6e6e 6563 7420 0154 4474 308e 050c connect..TDt0...


Client sent connect packet again, connect was finally accepted... This is abnormal. It shouldn't happen.
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Re: Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

Postby chaos252 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:34 UTC

dyn wrote:No, don't do that! First, they have no right to demand you go to spectator mode or even disconnect because of your ping. This is nonsense and it won't be tolerated -- if this was the problem i would limit max ping years ago, but it really isn't. You can connect with 800 ping and play, and others won't be affected in any way. Tell them ping is not influencing their connection so they can go to hell.


dk can play quite well with that ping, and even though it may be high its not normally a distraction at all. downloading however i find really annoying.. when a players ping goes from 100 to 478 every few seconds they warp everywhere.

dk have you tried the timenudge command? it might make things a little easier.

i use /cl_timenudge -10 on quake live, helps alot when playing on different pings.. try /cl_timenudge -15 and see if that makes your game more enjoyable.
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Re: Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

Postby dyn » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:38 UTC

DNS global DNS propagation seems to be without any errors:
http://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/q3.vogon.vg
http://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/uk.vogon.vg
http://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/ctf.vogon.vg

This is a free service and sometimes some of their servers may time out. If it happens just close the window and open the same link again, different servers will be selected.
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Re: Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

Postby dyn » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:44 UTC

chaos252 wrote:
dyn wrote:No, don't do that! First, they have no right to demand you go to spectator mode or even disconnect because of your ping. This is nonsense and it won't be tolerated -- if this was the problem i would limit max ping years ago, but it really isn't. You can connect with 800 ping and play, and others won't be affected in any way. Tell them ping is not influencing their connection so they can go to hell.


dk can play quite well with that ping, and even though it may be high its not normally a distraction at all. downloading however i find really annoying.. when a players ping goes from 100 to 478 every few seconds they warp everywhere.

dk have you tried the timenudge command? it might make things a little easier.

i use /cl_timenudge -10 on quake live, helps alot when playing on different pings.. try /cl_timenudge -15 and see if that makes your game more enjoyable.


I can confirm this error is unrelated to client ping. Yes, it can interfere with connection if someone is downloading, especially torrents which use multiple sources at same time, which is best way to download, because with small default packets everyone uses this can't be any different. That's the reason 1gbit network hardware prefers Jumbo packets (9000+ bytes), i enabled those for Q3 downloads, but client went insane. Then i forced 9014 MTU on the server and half of COD4 players went insane! :-D

If timenudge doesn't help, put it back to 0. Also try cl_packetdup 2-4, default is 1 which is good, some people prefer 0. It means client will duplicate packets, 2 or more times -- it can help when there is occasional packet loss (red vertical lines). Sometimes servers have small txqueuelen set (like 100) and this causes it, not a client problem. It can be fixed with `ifconfig eth0 txqueuelen 1000` (or 2000).

quake3-1.32b/code/ui/ui_main.c (auto-sets dup, but only via UI), maxpackets is way too low, should be 60 or more:
Code: Select all
   if (Q_stricmp(name, "ui_SetName") == 0) {
      trap_Cvar_Set( "name", UI_Cvar_VariableString("ui_Name"));
    } else if (Q_stricmp(name, "ui_setRate") == 0) {
      float rate = trap_Cvar_VariableValue("rate");
      if (rate >= 5000) {
         trap_Cvar_Set("cl_maxpackets", "30");
         trap_Cvar_Set("cl_packetdup", "1");
      } else if (rate >= 4000) {
         trap_Cvar_Set("cl_maxpackets", "15");
         trap_Cvar_Set("cl_packetdup", "2");      // favor less prediction errors when there's packet loss
      } else {
         trap_Cvar_Set("cl_maxpackets", "15");
         trap_Cvar_Set("cl_packetdup", "1");      // favor lower bandwidth
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Re: Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

Postby dyn » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:08 UTC

See! THIS IS THE PROBLEM!

src= .my.ip. ttl: 110 last_seen: 4341817960 oldest_pkt: 139 4341752686, 
4341752749, 4341752757, 4341752765, 4341752774, 4341752782, 4341752790,
4341752798, 4341752807, 4341752815, 4341752823, 4341752831, 4341752840,
4341752848, 4341752856, 4341752864, 4341752873, 4341752881, 4341752889,
4341752897, 4341752906, 4341752914, 4341752922, 4341752930, 4341752939,
4341752947, 4341752955, 4341752963, 4341752972, 4341752980, 4341752988,
4341752996, 4341753005, 4341753013, 4341753021, 4341753029, 4341753038,
4341753046, 4341753054, 4341753062, 4341753071, 4341753079, 4341753087,
4341753102, 4341753119, 4341773909, 4341797012, 4341797086, 4341797166,
4341797216, 4341797297, 4341797806, 4341797886, 4341798088, 4341798170,
4341798224, 4341798308, 4341798586, 4341798640, 4341798710, 4341798791,
4341798852, 4341798933, 4341798990, 4341799027, 4341799139, 4341801855,
4341801919, 4341803048, 4341803111, 4341803706, 4341803706, 4341803706,
4341803991, 4341804056, 4341804873, 4341810340, 4341810421, 4341810642,
4341810673, 4341810733, 4341810998, 4341811028, 4341811059, 4341811082,
4341811117, 4341811126, 4341811126, 4341811126, 4341811126, 4341811157,
4341811157, 4341811189, 4341811304, 4341811336, 4341811452, 4341811485,
4341811485, 4341811485, 4341811485, 4341811566, 4341811826, 4341811909,
4341811958, 4341811991, 4341811992, 4341811992, 4341811992, 4341811992,
4341812023, 4341812268, 4341812349, 4341812474, 4341812554, 4341812624,
4341812705, 4341812744, 4341812778, 4341813060, 4341813141, 4341813368,
4341813449, 4341813578, 4341813661, 4341813701, 4341813701, 4341813701,
4341813782, 4341817008, 4341817041, 4341817041, 4341817042, 4341817762,
4341817794, 4341817794, 4341817806, 4341817839, 4341817839, 4341817960,
4341745913, 4341745957, 4341746037, 4341746118, 4341746127, 4341746149,
4341746180, 4341746211, 4341746293, 4341746433, 4341746513, 4341746601,
4341746657, 4341746715, 4341746763, 4341746795, 4341746831, 4341746861,
4341746892, 4341746909, 4341746945, 4341746985, 4341747065, 4341747109,
4341747141, 4341747141, 4341747141, 4341747141, 4341747223, 4341748371,
4341748452, 4341748767, 4341748829, 4341748837, 4341748845, 4341748854,
4341748862, 4341748870, 4341748878, 4341748887, 4341748895, 4341748910,
4341748926, 4341749028, 4341749061, 4341749061, 4341749429, 4341749512,
4341750011, 4341750091, 4341750247, 4341750290, 4341750326, 4341750367,
4341750448, 4341750552, 4341750634, 4341750722, 4341750755, 4341750912,
4341750994


Can't you see it?! I last connected @ Wed, 03 Aug 2107 12:32:40 GMT [ last_seen: 4341817960 ]!
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Re: Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

Postby dyn » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:20 UTC

No, forget that, xt_recent is not to blame. :)

I figured what causes ~3 sec delay. It only happens if you reconnect right after disconnecting, in less than 1 sec. There is 1000ms delay enforced by server between commands, and "disconnect" is one of the commands. So, wait at least 1 second before reconnecting. Why 3 seconds delay then, if the limit is 1/s? It is because client will send connect packets at 3 second intervals, not sooner.

Since this is not anything serious i doubt it will help with previously described connection issues. Please test again and let me know...
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Re: Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

Postby donkey kong » Sat Nov 19, 2011 21:37 UTC

dyn wrote: No, don't do that! First, they have no right to demand you go to spectator mode or even disconnect because of your ping. This is nonsense and it won't be tolerated -- if this was the problem i would limit max ping years ago, but it really isn't. You can connect with 800 ping and play, and others won't be affected in any way. Tell them ping is not influencing their connection so they can go to hell


ok. :)

chaos252 wrote: try /cl_timenudge -15 and see if that makes your game more enjoyable


dyn wrote: If timenudge doesn't help, put it back to 0. Also try cl_packetdup 2-4, default is 1 which is good, some people prefer 0. It means client will duplicate packets, 2 or more times -- it can help when there is occasional packet loss (red vertical lines).


ok. i will try.
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Re: Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

Postby dyn » Sun Nov 20, 2011 15:50 UTC

Any update? If you want this to be resolved you need to let me know if you can connect without delays or timeouts.
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Re: Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

Postby Anymouse » Sun Nov 20, 2011 23:24 UTC

Ok...tonight, 6:20PM eastern time, with multiple attempts unable to connect to Vogon via IP address 184.182.87.52. Endless "Awaiting challenge...". No problem connecting to q3.vogon.vg, ctf.vogon.vg or uk.vogon.vg.
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Re: Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

Postby donkey kong » Mon Nov 21, 2011 13:33 UTC

dyn wrote: Any update? If you want this to be resolved you need to let me know if you can connect without delays or timeouts.


In the last two days, I could connect to uk.vogon.vg no problem.
The q3.vogon does not yet appear on the list of servers but I can connect directly, but only after 3 or 4 attempts. The message "no or bad challenge for your address" keeps appearing.
One thing I noticed is that my ping is now much higher (around 300/330) and everything seems slower, but I do not know if that has to do with the server.
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Re: Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

Postby dyn » Mon Nov 21, 2011 14:53 UTC

Anymouse wrote:Ok...tonight, 6:20PM eastern time, with multiple attempts unable to connect to Vogon via IP address 184.182.87.52. Endless "Awaiting challenge...". No problem connecting to q3.vogon.vg, ctf.vogon.vg or uk.vogon.vg.


OK, so problem appears to be @ the US server. Btw, q3.vogon.vg has address 184.82.87.52, so if you could connect to the q3.vogon.vg it is weird you had problems when using ip, since hostname is translated to ip and connection procedure after that is essentially the same.
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Re: Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

Postby dyn » Mon Nov 21, 2011 15:01 UTC

donkey kong wrote:
dyn wrote: Any update? If you want this to be resolved you need to let me know if you can connect without delays or timeouts.


In the last two days, I could connect to uk.vogon.vg no problem.
The q3.vogon does not yet appear on the list of servers but I can connect directly, but only after 3 or 4 attempts. The message "no or bad challenge for your address" keeps appearing.
One thing I noticed is that my ping is now much higher (around 300/330) and everything seems slower, but I do not know if that has to do with the server.


Yes it is not on the list yet. But check this thread, just in case: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1313#p19015 ... Your errors appear to be connected with DNS errors some players had in the past. In that case it is not our fault, but i am not saying this is the problem. Check console for any 'resolve' error, like "Couldn't resolve address", when it tries to resolve the authorize server address. Solution to this is to add 127.0.0.1 entries in hosts file, check thread i linked to for more info.

Also try connecting directly to the ip of US server with /connect 184.82.87.52 ... Maybe it will be faster, especially if there is any DNS problem.
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Re: Brazilian players [+q3 connect problems]

Postby donkey kong » Mon Nov 21, 2011 23:25 UTC

dyn wrote: Check console for any 'resolve' error, like "Couldn't resolve address", when it tries to resolve the authorize server address.


Using \connect q3.vogon.vg in quake3 console or direct in command line (i tried this several times):
Resolving update.quake3arena.com
update.quake3arena.com resolved to 192.246.40.56:27951
q3.vogon.vg resolved to 184.82.87.52:27960
Resolving authorize.quake3arena.com
authorize.quake3arena.com resolved to 192.246.40.56:27952
No or bad challenge for your address.

dyn wrote: so try connecting directly to the ip of US server with /connect 184.82.87.52

ok, i always can connect using: \connect 184.82.87.52 without trouble.

One last thing: today is not shown any server in the server list.

For me the problem is solved, since i can connect directly and i only play in vogon :)

Thanks for the help, dyn.
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