It's JUST a theory people!

[SD]

Dyn if you want to merge with some other topic go ahead

[dyn]

Ah there's plenty of room for separate topics, i merge only if same stuff is discussed & i need to watch this first.

[dyn]

I did watch it, and it basically confirms what you were saying about religion and how people defend it, but also what i was saying about atheism and the mainstream science. There are many problems with science of today and established theories. Time and time again they need to suppress something in order to keep established facts in the mainstream. In that regard it can be many times reminiscent of religion. This is very big and wide topic, not going into details now, but you can search for problems with mainstream science or dogmas in science to see what i mean. One nice example would be relativity vs. quantum science, and yes, no need to read opinionated pages from people who will defend the Bible or Quran at any cost -- best stuff is from other scientists.

Also, these type of shows are a bit leaning towards group-think/bullying. People listening to them will side with them, and the Big Science is on their side also. What more could they ask for! Still OK, it makes people think now and then.

[SD]

Oh I agree, science isn't without problems. But something I do like about science is it doesn't make claims it cant support with at least some evidential backing. A "theory" has a different meaning in science to the way we might use the term every day. A theory is the "holy Grail" (te he) of science. The reason I pay attention to scientists is because science works, not some kind of weird worship I have for it. I only posted this because it was on topic at the time.

[dyn]

Yes, when people say "theoretically" it would be closest to scientific hypothesis, while scientific theory should be nearly 100% true, thoroughly tested with whatever is available and not being disproved by other scientists.

There is another problem, although impossible to prove much without circular logic (the Bible confirming itself, etc.) what people believe can have tremendous power and can be effective. Millions of those who died in the name of some god can confirm that. For instance, i read witchhunts in Europe were so extensive some villages around Switzerland were almost women-less. Time has come for the Churches to burn!

Bathory - For All Those Who Died

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzgURwjT4g0

[Fierfaks]

I certainly respect your opinion and opinion of other people, but my life experience says that god on light is. I was on the brink of death more than once, but remained to live. My life to someone means is necessary on this guilty earth. God and church is two different things. The church was created by people instead of the Lord. And I consider that for communication intermediaries good luck aren't necessary.

[SD]

I certainly respect your opinion and opinion of other people

Likewise

but my life experience says that god on light is. I was on the brink of death more than once, but remained to live.

This is a common, well, fairly common approach to the question. Unfortunately, surviving a traumatic injury or event doesn't mean there's a God. It may be enough to convince you, but to anyone who isn't you this kind of testimony is anecdotal and isn't evidence of any divine entity. Not trying to be disrespectful, so don't take me the wrong way, but you did chime in on the conversation

My life to someone means is necessary on this guilty earth.

?

God and church is two different things.

Agreed.

The church was created by people instead of the Lord

Agreed again, however I would argue that the "Lord" was also created by people

[Fierfaks]

I certainly respect your opinion and opinion of other people

Likewise

but my life experience says that god on light is. I was on the brink of death more than once, but remained to live.

This is a common, well, fairly common approach to the question. Unfortunately, surviving a traumatic injury or event doesn't mean there's a God. It may be enough to convince you, but to anyone who isn't you this kind of testimony is anecdotal and isn't evidence of any divine entity. Not trying to be disrespectful, so don't take me the wrong way, but you did chime in on the conversation

My life to someone means is necessary on this guilty earth.

?

God and church is two different things.

Agreed.

The church was created by people instead of the Lord

Agreed again, however I would argue that the "Lord" was also created by people

The Lord created the nature and the person. And the person destroys all this and destroys. He is a parasite on an earth body.

[SD]

This is a very saddening world view. Humans aren't a "parasite" at all, we live here. As for the "Lord" creating the nature and the person..... evidence please?

[Fierfaks]

GOD - THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE AND Providence
God and the laws of nature.

Everywhere in the structure of the universe man finds wisdom, that is, regularity. Otherwise, knowledge of the world would be impossible. But where is the source of these regularities detected in the universe? For the religious worldview answer to this question is. The infinite in His mind God created the world with its laws. If you do not recognize an intelligent designer, then the cause of order in the universe must be ascribed the occasion. But could accidentally formed a complicated world order? Observing that in the universe there are a variety of forces, and that it evolves according to certain laws, a person may decide that the universe is inherent in self-development. But it is not. The forces and the laws in force in nature, do not make plans, designs, drawings, calculations do not produce, do not monitor, etc. Although they act blindly, but nevertheless, we know the colossal number of examples where the result of their action is highly intelligent, meaningful and appropriate. This can only be the case if God - the Creator of the world - said the forces of nature are certain laws. The laws by which nature is developed, by analogy to compare with the mathematical program-control lathe machine. Not the very same program and asked himself not the same gears are in motion. Seeing working without any human involvement machine, no one thinks that this complex mechanism appeared without highly educated professionals.

Speaking about the laws of nature, it must be said that since the existence of these laws should be their lawgiver - God.

If you take some text, for example, the first verse of the Holy Bible, consisting of 28 letters: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Gen. 1, 1), and to give these letters to split the alphabet to a child who does not know their names, can we assume that these letters he accidentally lay down this biblical text? Here, as an example, the child because it does so well unexamined as forces acting in nature. And could have been such a child at random from the set of letters add up the contents of an entire book? And if you take a large group of children, also do not know the names of the letters, and give them an arbitrarily long period of time, can we assume that they will be able to huge mountain of letters add up the contents of all the books in the world? But the structure of the universe, and because its processes and an infinite number of times wiser and more complex than the contents of all the books on earth! So could the irrational forces of nature (which appeared out of nowhere) to arrange a meaningful universe and set the laws of nature? And where and what is a "ready-made building material" they have taken?
God - the Creator of the universe.

Man from time immemorial interested in the question: how did the universe come from? Reasonable structure of the world suggests that the universe could not have arisen by itself for no reason, but created an infinitely higher mind.

Some admiring the majestic palace, will not we explain the appearance of it in a way that, say, in this place as something of themselves there were walls, roof, windows, doors, and they are randomly combined in a magnificent building. That the palace has its builders, no one doubts. The elegant form of the building leads to the conclusion that the building was erected wonderful artists on the project, drawn up by a talented architect. We also know that the machine can not appear without a constructor and other highly skilled professionals, hours - without the master, the book - not a writer, a picture - no artist. And the Universe, which is an infinite number of times more complex and marvelous of all buildings, machinery, books, too, could not occur without the great Creator, whose name - GOD.

With all the high level of current knowledge about the universe there is no reliable data for the assertion that the material world has no beginning. Beginninglessness - is infinite in time, pointing to the past. Infinity same - it's essentially a measurement that does not fit into the narrow confines of a finite human mind, and no restrictions, it is not subject to experience. Based on the definition of "beginninglessness" you can not empirically prove that the world is always there.

Every living creature, or any inanimate body has a beginning, and the reason that caused his being, exists outside of himself and precedes it. Also, the universe has a beginning. It was created by God. This truth Scripture reveals in the very first pages.

The world was created by God out of nothing. Prior to the creation of the world there was no finished material that God could use to create the world. Creation out of nothing - it's a miracle that I may do the omnipotence of God.

The human mind is difficult to accept the truth about the creation of the world out of nothing, because he is guided only by the fact that it is available in the daily experience, which is not observed anything of the origin of the non-existence of perfect. In addition, the widespread ancient axiom: "from nothing is nothing." It should be said that the Christian idea refines this aphorism and paraphrases it: "out of nothing by itself (ie without reason) there is nothing." If the Holy Bible states that the world came from nothing by itself, then it would be, of course, absurd. But Scripture teaches that the universe brought into being from nothingness omnipotence of God. And for the all-powerful God, nothing is impossible. As of nothing God created the world - a great mystery to the human mind. And you should not try to penetrate his thought into what is incomprehensible to her. According to Christian revelation, that creation was not due to God any external or internal necessity, but it was ordained by God from all eternity.

God created the world with His mind, wisdom, will, in short. The scripture in support of this reads as follows: "The Lord by wisdom founded the earth, the heavens approved the Mind" (Prov. 3:19). "The Lord does whatever he wants, in heaven and on earth" (Ps. 134, 6). In the first chapter of Genesis contains the phrase: "And God said, Let there be light. And there was light" (Genesis 1:3), and the like. The expression "and God said, Let there be ..." not to be understood that God uttered articulate sounds something like human words, but this saying expresses the creative power of the almighty Creator, who brought all into being from nothingness.

[To better grasp the creative wisdom of God, look at an example. To launch the man-made spacecraft requires a gigantic work of thought of thousands of scientists, designers, engineers, called genius: you need precise computing, complex electronic and other devices. And as then called the mind of God, who has set in motion billions of billions of heavenly bodies? The motion of artificial celestial bodies is calculated by people under the laws of celestial mechanics that the man himself does not set, but only opens in nature. He is not only calculated the movement of the unknown to us many of the heavenly bodies, but his mind set themselves the laws of motion of the star around the world.
If you take into account the motion of microparticles described by the laws of mechanics, how much was still grander reveals to us the divine Mind. Convincingly demonstrates the complexity of the device is a simple example of such a microcosm. One gram of water contains the number of molecules expressed dvadtsatidvuhznachnym number. Approximately the same number of molecules expressed per gram of any other substance (air, iron, bricks, etc.). Each water molecule consists of two atoms of hydrogen and one oxygen atom. Each hydrogen atom moves around the nucleus by one electron to an oxygen atom - to eight electrons which are arranged on two orbits: the first (closest to the core) - two electrons to the second orbit - six electrons. In other species, the number of electrons and atoms of the orbits in which they are located, can be much more. For example, each atom of gold around the core 79 rotates electrons located in six orbits. All the bodies in the world are composed of an unimaginable number of molecules and atoms. In every atom the electrons moving around the nucleus. Not to mention the other particles in the microcosm and all the physical processes associated with them, it is easy to understand that the universe from the microcosm to the world of galaxies arranged in His infinite Mind of the Creator.]

God first created the world disembodied spirits - Angelic world, and then set up a real, or material world. The culmination of God's creation was a man who was created out of the immaterial and rational soul and a material body.

Scripture in its story of creation, God repeatedly tells the definition of His creation: "And God saw that it was good."

St. Paul the Apostle testifies: "Every creature of God is good" (1 Timothy 4:4).
The idea of ​​creation and the universe.

At different times, the human mind has built a variety of cosmological and cosmogonic system. By the end of the twentieth century, more people became convinced that the universe is extremely difficult in structure and origin.

Of all the systems of cosmological special attention drawn to the biblical story in which Moses depicts the origin of the world. To understand how lofty in spirit and profound truths about the content-creation set out by Moses, you need to compare to remember how primitive and crude were at the time cosmogonical represent all the peoples of the earth. Where, however a revelation from God, Moses learned information about the origin of life on Earth in the order of the device initially land and water, followed by the emergence of plants, animals, and finally - the man? After all, science is only in the last century before last-opened that first appeared on Earth plants, then animals, and finally man. A physicist of the last century Bio said, "Or Moses in science was also adept as our century, or he was enlightened by God, written under the inspiration of Him."

About three thousand years ago St.. Prophet Moses revealed the mystery of the creation of the world God. Over the past millennium the idea of ​​creation has received a thorough philosophical proof. Its credibility is very high in our time among many of the greatest minds. How could on its own people of that distant era when the philosophical thought of mankind has been extremely scarce, to rise to the concept of God as a higher spiritual beings and the Creator.

Seer Moses describes the creation of the world, that it was understood by all people at all times. Why did not he used in his narrative modern cosmological ideas? The cosmological picture of the world has become increasingly complex. And the knowledge of the world, which has a cosmology today, very, very simplified (if not infinitely simplified) compared to what is, is the universe really is. Therefore, if the Holy Bible outlined the origin of the world, even at the level of modern cosmological concepts, such information would also be far from the absolute truth. We should not forget that the language of cosmology, physics, mathematics, etc. - The language of the limited human concepts to describe using numbers, formulas, graphs, diagrams, parts of the universe. God of His omniscience knows everything about the universe, and He does not need any formulas or in the schedules or for any other similar tools. However, the mind is not able to accommodate people that belongs to the Divine Mind. Because the human mind is limited, and limited knowledge of his universe. No matter how many new things about the universe, whatever people may find out is always in front of them will not even open ocean.

The entire material world with all its complexity and diversity is a zero before the majesty, beauty and holiness of God. Hence Scripture and does not seek to tell us a lot about the visible universe. The most important thing about the universe: how it came about and what there is - in the Holy Bible is open, to allow for these questions the human mind itself can not. Other truths about the universe is able to recognize people by their mind. Why, then, to require that the answers are contained in the Holy Scriptures? If the Holy Bible, aimed to satisfy human curiosity in the matter of the universe, how would she should have done? Use mathematical formulas to express physical quantities in meters, seconds, kilograms, etc.? But then when the Holy Bible was written in human practice did not have these units to measure distance, time, mass, etc. It is extremely meager knowledge were in the area of ​​mathematics. Only after thousands of years after the writing of the Holy Bible appeared calculus, analytic geometry, non-Euclidean geometry, and other areas of mathematics. Physics as a science in its infancy at the time. If, for example, Moses wrote in the Scriptures, that the distance from the Earth to the Sun is 150 million kilometers away, unless it would be understandable to people of that era, and for many subsequent centuries, as such concepts as the "million" and " kilometer ", introduced in the human practice thousands of years later after writing the Holy Bible?

Well, if the inspired Moses laid cosmological questions using the equations of general relativity, many of the readers even the twentieth century would have understood them? And how would such a narrative looked Bible readers in the nineteenth century ... a thousand years ago ... in the days of her writing? Knowledge of the world expanded with the development of mental abilities, in particular, its abstract thinking. In the research works of man draws for yourself craze, always looking for something new and unexpected. And if all the knowledge about the universe were open to people in finished form, is would then be an interesting scientific activities? And who would then deciphered the language of scientific symbols applied to the biblical description of the universe? And by what right does the mathematical language of God would open the holy Moses, cosmology, if the man himself at his discretion selects the language of mathematical notation, conditionally set the units of measurement of physical quantities, etc.

If described in the Holy Bible structure of the universe, who's to say how many millions or billions of books then was to be a part of it? But which is better: to strive to learn the material world (which has not realized till the end and did not satiate the soul for eternity with this knowledge), or to know the One who perfectly knows and the world, and ourselves, Who created everything. Who alone can nourish the human soul immortal? To know God, to have fellowship with Him, to be His sons - is infinitely higher and more valuable than to know all the deepest mysteries of the universe! And that's it for such a knowledge of God and communion with God and leads us to the Scriptures.

People are unable to understand how God created the world, it's unfathomable miracle for the human mind. Scripture reveals that the process of creation was realized by supernatural means. Knowledge of the laws of nature does not give an answer to the question of how God created the world. In the process of creation there were the omnipotence of God, and it has no restrictions. If, for example, St. Bible says that light came before the sun, it is necessary to firmly believe. All the more so from the point of view of modern physics of light - is a special form of matter, a special case of electromagnetic waves, and its occurrence not have to have a source like the sun. Light has many wonderful properties. ["Light" emitted is absorbed and distributed in the form of particles-photons, called photons. In a vacuum, the photon moves at a speed of about 300 000 km / s. He can not be at rest, and can not change its speed. Light has a dual nature - and the wave and corpuscular.] Marvelously with its origin and creation of the world. Visible light is only marginally helps people imagine the ineffable light, which is God.


Science: the universe had a beginning.

All the materialist philosophy is built on the assumption that the universe had no beginning. However, the science of the XX century, came to the conclusion that the universe has a beginning in time.

In 1929, the American astronomer Hubble has made such a discovery. The light from distant galaxies few redder expected, and the farther away from us one or another galaxy, the more its light is emitted is shifted to the red side of the spectrum. Based on the Doppler effect [Change in wavelength (or frequency) observed when a source of light or sound waves on their receiver. At a distance from the receiver wavelength increases, the approach is reduced.] This can be explained by anything other than the removal of our galaxy. So the universe is expanding. Calculations showed that in the past the universe was concentrated at one point, a much smaller size of the atom. Science does not undertake to answer the question, what represented a universe encased in a single point. Almost all the major cosmologists and astrophysicists of this century, share the belief that in the beginning God created the universe in the form of pervoatoma, and then later from it in motion the whole cosmos.

The true Christian is, of course, does not need such evidence of creation. For it is enough to know about the creation of the world that informs the Holy Bible. Many scientists have not even tried to delve into the mystery. So, once Isaac Newton asked him to explain how the world came. On it is the greatest scientist said that he does not compose hypotheses and challenge him as a scientist - not explain how the world came, and he is from the first moment of its existence.

Although this explanation is God created the universe, which offers modern cosmology is based on the concept of an expanding universe, the Christian worldview can not take their weapons because of the impotence of science to solve the mystery of Creation, yet we can not do justice to the fact that the science of the XX century, owning such powerful means of knowledge of the universe, such as the general theory of relativity, spectral analysis, radio astronomy, and so on, has come to an unshakable confidence in himself, which for many centuries the Christian religion teaches, namely:
- The universe has a beginning in time;
- Before the universe was neither space nor time;
- The light of which God said, "Let there be light. And there was light" (Genesis 1:3) really came before the Sun: astrophysicists say that this primordial light in the universe is preserved to this day in the form of an open in 1965, the U.S. CMB researchers (ie, residual) radiation that penetrates the entire universe.

Modern astrophysics studies such cosmic objects such as neutron stars, radio galaxies, quasars, pulsars, black holes, etc. As all this is interesting! What great wondrous His work shows us the Lord!

For example, a black hole. This is probably one of the most mysterious objects in space.

Black hole - very succinct celestial body. It absorbs into itself everything, but nothing can ever fly out of it. Time stops inside the black hole. Black hole - like a reminder to man of hell. After all hell - the impenetrable darkness, time stops there, anyone who will be in hell, could never get out of it.

The idea of ​​not only penetrated the evolution in biology, but also in astronomy. Materialism explains the appearance of the planets. Sun, stars, galaxies, as a result of evolutionary processes in the universe. They say that the starry sky, as he is seen today, it was so for billions of years. They think that if a stretch of time for many billions of years of the formation of the universe - it would look convincing. What can you say about this?

First of all, attention is drawn to the fact that modern cosmology, explaining the process of creation or creation of the world, is not talking about billions, not millions, not the thousands or even of years, months, days, hours, minutes, and on such incredibly small fractions of a second, such as 10-34 seconds. [10-34 seconds. = 0.0 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 001 p.] (The so-called age of the universe, when the Friedmann expansion - open Hubble recession of galaxies), or a billion times smaller value: 10-43 sec. (Planck time, the universe, which began working with classical ideas about the gravitational field).

Modern scientists say that in such inconceivably small compared to one second of time elapsed from the moment the start of its existence the universe, all the physical laws of the universe are in such a direction that could be favorable for the life of the human race. Thus, a major American physicist Steven Weinberg in his book "The First Three Minutes" substantiates the claim that from the very beginning of the world in the universe was predetermined life of mankind on Earth.

Trying to research the origin of the universe as a whole and its constituent parts - that's about the same as the consideration in the mirror of reality behind the observer, who never in his life just does not move in space, but did not see anything around me personally, and therefore does not has no idea of ​​the real size of objects and the distances between them. Can such a man, seeing the mirror image of the world behind him, set the size of reflected bodies and the distance between them? Of course not. That such a man remind scientists about the past of the universe. They did not move back in time nor in the thousands, not the millions or billions of years. Before their scientific eye can not "Scroll" as on the silver screen, view the evolutionary formation of the cosmos, even if evolution actually took place in the formation of celestial bodies. Mentioned earlier observer sees us with a mirror behind the actual picture of the universe, but the material scientists attempting to explain the origin of the heavenly bodies naturally have before us is not the reality, reflecting the formation of celestial bodies, and their theoretical hypotheses and models in this respect and they operate.

In a mirror image of reality that surrounds us some objects appear in the foreground, the other - on the back, although the surface of the mirror - one plane. Reflection of the past of the universe, scientists observed the same time plane - in the present tense. However, observing in space in some areas of star clusters in the other - the interstellar dust and gas, science comes to the conclusion that the stars are formed gradually in the universe is the cycle of matter: some stars collapse, others are created. The emergence of such clearly evolutionary materialistic views confused at the time of some naturalists, and pushed them to materialism. Well, even if it were so: some starry worlds are destroyed, while others arise through why it is necessary to deny God? In our bodies, too, some cells die, the other newly created, but it also does not speak against God. On the contrary, in this example we see how wise God, who created such a wonderful human body.

Scientists are trying to comprehend the universe, but it does not take into account the fact that as a result of the fall of mankind, first, the man himself has changed for the worse: was a very considerable distance from God - the source of wisdom and knowledge - and have for this reason can not know many of the great ideas of God of the universe, and secondly, the effects of the Fall and penetrated into the material world around us, and he was involved in corruption and destruction.

On the day of the Second Coming of the Lord will refresh the heavens and the earth. "Then the heavens will pass away with the noise, the elements will be dissolved with fire, earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up" (2 Pet. 3, 10). "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells" (2 Peter, 3, 13).

Boundless bliss awaits everyone who all the days of his earthly life prepares his dwelling in the new heaven and the new earth.
Universe - the book of knowledge of God.

Why is it and why God created the world? The answer to this question is contained in Scripture reveals to man that the only reason that prompted God to create the world was His infinite goodness and love, the desire to have a communicants His glory out of his inner life, and the purpose of creation of the universe were the glory of the Creator and bliss razumnonravstvennyh creatures. Being himself preblag, God wants us to other moral being blissfully happy, so that they can reach only through the glorification of his Creator. "God does not need anything, but He is the abyss of goodness grace, not being (which had no existence) to bestow existence" - says the Blessed Theodoret. And in the words of St. John of Damascus, "the good and all-good God was not satisfied with the contemplation of Himself, but (abundantly) good pleasure of His goodness to occur beings enjoying His blessings and His goodness involved."

The universe is like a magnificent temple in which all the inanimate, animate, create a reasonable and moral continually praise and glorify their Creator.

The glory of God has no similarity with the human popularity. God does not need such a glory that are looking for the people. Glorifying God by man - this is our likeness to the Creator through the increase in spiritual perfection, whereby we, the people, to partake of the true source of happiness and as our spiritual growth is blissfully happy in the land.

God had no need for the creation of the world and does not depend on the matter. It operates in the matter, but these His actions are in no way reflected on his own condition.

Just as the artist is outside of the canvas, is a potter, clay, so God is not bound to matter. St. Symeon the New Theologian writes: "When God created the world, the Lord did not change the place and is not connected with the creatures. If He is unlimited, then where will you say, he is. Answer you: It does not look physically, gaining She mentally. Looking spiritually, you find him unlimited, so again - anywhere, neither inside nor outside, but everywhere, in everything, dispassionately, without confusion, and therefore is likely, since he - first of all. "

Creator of all His creation put the seal of His omnipotence, greatness, wisdom. St. Gregory the Theologian said: "The sky, the earth, the sea, in a word - the whole world is a great and glorious book of God, speaks volumes about the existence of God."

If people would look at the universe in the eyes of the spirit, then be sure to see the hidden God in creation. "One day, - says the greatest Christian ascetic and world-renowned philosopher St. Augustine - I wanted to know where and at what point is my God. I asked the land where my God, or are you my God? - She answered and said," Do not I am your God. "And all that is on it, the same thing I said. then I asked the sea and all the depths and the animals," Where is my God? "And they said to me:" We are not your God: look for it above us. "I asked stainless wind," Where is my God? "and airspace with all its inhabitants said:" We are not your God. "Heaven I said, the sun, the moon and the stars, but their speech was:" Do not we your God, who are looking for. "Then called on all subjects that I beheld, and said to them," You have answered me that you are not my God. What can you tell me about him? "And they all cried aloud:" He made us! "

The style of the work of art can easily determine who its author. Several books written in the same style, according to their general author. The book is written in the universe as single author. While studying, for example, a grain of sand, lying on the beach, and a meteorite that came to Earth from the depths of the universe, we will find them in the general chemical composition of elements. But even more striking similarity is found in their internal structure. They consist of the same electrons, protons, neutrons, etc. The cosmic radiation that comes to us on Earth from distant stars, is composed of the same elementary particles, which can be seen on Earth. As well as the creation of God is not to explain the universe in all its parts is arranged on a single plan, and of the same "building blocks"?

St. Athanasius the Great writes: "The undoubted proof that the cause of all things - one is that the world is one, but not many ... most of the world order and perfect matching of all its parts clearly show that the governor and the manager of one of the universe, but not many. For if rulers were many, this procedure could not be preserved, in contrast, would be all mixed up and become distorted, because everyone would have to dispose of at will and oppose the other. And as we said, that polytheism is godlessness and mnogonachalie should be called anarchy: if one overthrew the power of another, without a doubt, there would be no head, and it would be one universal anarchy. Where there is no head, there is no order, on the contrary, one mess. If a world has been created many, it would be rather reprove impotence creators, because for one case required the participation of many, and at the same time it showed a lack of knowledge of each of them for creation. After all, if it was sufficient for one, would not have much time to make up deficiency of each other. But to say that something is lacking in God - not only folly, but also exceeds all iniquity: because between people and would not be called perfect artist (on the contrary, would be called weak) who is not one but many created with the assistance of have any work. "
God - Divine Providence of the universe.

The existence of all visible and invisible creatures, the laws of the universe and the wise consistency suggests that God preserves the existence and strength of His creatures, send them to a useful purpose. God's concern for the world is called the Providence of God. Providence of God is constantly at work omnipotence, wisdom and goodness of God, which God keeps being as the universe as a whole and individually, and the bodies of all beings in the world, with their inherent powers and laws, moral beings assists (when they freely choose and doing good), while respecting their free will; directs their life and work to their intended purpose, correcting and converting, if possible, the evil committed by them in good effects.

God is all-perfect spiritual being, can not be indifferent to the fate of the world He created. The infinite love of God manifested in the continuous living and active communication of the Creator and His creatures. In turn, the world needs God's industrialized over him as he brought to the existence of anything, does not have a self-existent being.

Scripture clearly shows the providential work of God. The Old Testament righteous Job says of him: "He despises the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven" (Job 28:24). "In whose hand is the soul of every living thing and the breath of all mankind" (Job 12:10). In the book of the prophet Isaiah, the Lord says, "And to your old age I am he, and to gray hairs I will carry you, even I will carry, and will deliver you" (Isaiah 46:4). In the Sermon on the Mount Christ the Savior speaks of mnogopopechitelnoy God's love for every person and for all creatures such words: "Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of them. If the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven. God so clothe, how much more will you of little faith? " (Luke 12:27-28).

The Lord Jesus Christ in the Sermon on the Mount is still so portrays industrialized God about people saying, "That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust" (Matt. 5:45). The psalmist David in Psalm 103-m very eloquently portrays God as the Divine Providence of life: "They (the animals on Earth) from You expect you, to give them their food in due season. Give them - take, open your hand - filled with good hide Your face - they are troubled, take away their spirit - die, and return to their dust shalt send forth thy spirit - created, and you renew the face of the earth "(Psalm 103, 27-30).
The universe and wonder.

Divine Providence continually works wonders. Contrary to wonder whether the laws of nature? There is no contradiction here can not be. The laws of nature set the all-powerful God. He can alter and change those laws according to His will. If a person has the ability to influence the nature of their limited forces, much more has this ability to Almighty God. Having created the world and set it to its own laws, God bound Himself by these laws. His omnipotence He can perform actions in addition to the nature of its laws.

A miracle - it's a phenomenon or action that has no reason to power and the laws of nature. It occurs in nature but is produced not by nature. The miracle is not unnatural, and weird, and there is evidence of God's dominion over nature. A surprising work of God can be seen in every blade of grass, every florets, each seed in each insect, the word - anywhere and everywhere. Most wonderful works of the Lord is so prevalent around that man, getting used to it, can not ignore them in God's diva. Therefore God also works wonders for people, seeing unusual in knowledge of him who makes it.

Every miracle is an undoubted fact. Mind of man can not be explained either by miracle. But the whole Christian faith is based on the possibility of a miracle. Praying, Christian believes and hopes that through his prayers and faith of the almighty God can do such actions that go beyond the normal flow of life. And while all the world is on the immutable laws believer continually sees a lot of miracles. Do not miracles - the life of man and the universe? And no wonder whether that exists on earth the Church of Christ, which is not of this world? Every believer in Christ, who candidly confesses his sins in the sacrament of Penance, is familiar with the greatest miracle of inner spiritual renewal. After the sincere and deep soul confession feels like a weight lifted off her burden of sin; ocean of goodness, joy, spiritual purity is poured into it, the whole heart is illuminated by an unusual light, filled with peace and love. This miracle can be available to everyone who wants to experience it. In the history of the Church of God is the inner miracle contemplated by billions of people. There is also a brilliant works of poetry and prose, vivid images • this spiritual experience - evidence that many great masters of words had a religious experience in their personal lives.

A person can not know how God works miracles, as He rules the universe. But people available to contemplate the works of God in the wonderful order. It is found everywhere in the world of numbers and figures, in the laws of physics, chemistry, biology, .., in the great and small, in the distant and close-up ... The man studies the laws of the universe. But as more people discover them, the more enigmatic and mysterious universe is perceived when explaining its origin without an intelligent designer. After all, how else to explain if a reasonable regularity in nature? The laws of mathematics, we deduce from his thinking and reason. Consequently, mathematics - a product of the mind. But why is the planet that does not have a reason to be moving on precise mathematical laws? Why, in the structure of crystals and minerals, plants and animals, human bodies are observed symmetry and regular geometric shapes, strict mathematical laws? The answer to these questions can be only one: the universe is arranged infinite mind of God.

To discover the laws of nature, requires large minds. So really, these are reasonable laws established in the universe without the mind, or rather, without the Supreme Mind - God? If in the old abandoned cave found carved on the wall of any images or during archaeological excavations are certain tools, no one doubts that bothered about it sensible man, though his most we have ever seen. Is it possible to count all that reliable evidence of superior intelligence created the world?

This completes the pages of this brochure consideration of the sky, the discussion of the vast expanses of the universe and the countless mysteries of the universe. After all this, we'll do this the main conclusion: the universe could not have come to exist, and without the Higher Mind. Hence, it is bound to its origin to God. So. showing up everywhere in the universe procedure leads us to the recognition of the Almighty.

Teach a child with a simple faith and humility of mind to look into the heavenly heights, so that every time with our spiritual eyes, coming from the heart, God has opened.

[Fierfaks]

CERTIFICATE OF PROMINENT SCIENTISTS THAT THE INVESTIGATION LEADS TO RECOGNIZE THE UNIVERSE OF GOD-THE CREATOR AND ON THEIR FAITH IN THE SUPREME

When on earth the Divine Infant Jesus Christ was born, the first of the men who came to worship the Son of God, the wise men, astrologers were. As the gospel, they "have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him" (Matthew 2:2). Bible prophecy predicted that before the birth of Christ the Savior in the sky should appear unusual star. The Old Testament world lived the expectation of the star. First saw it and decided to rush the Magi to worship the Christ of God. Star led the Magi to Bethlehem. This is a deeply symbolic for further human history. During the following centuries, many brilliant astronomers of the world through the study of the star came and come to God. And it is not only famous astronomers, but also other eminent natural scientists, who further and deeper than simple minds, have a look into the mysteries of the universe suggest that the universe has helped them see the greatness of God's activity. To give but a few of such evidence.

Johannes Kepler, the great astronomer, physicist and mathematician who discovered the laws of planetary motion in the solar system, such a prayer addressed to God finished his last scientific work. "Before you leave the table at which I made all my research - says Kepler - I can only then lifted up his eyes and raised his hands to thank the Creator of the Universe for His goodness to me!

Dear God: You are spreading the light upon the earth, and raising us to the source of your grace, prepared the place for us in the light of thy light ... Thank you for all the joy that I have experienced in the contemplation of thy deeds. So I finished this book, which are the results of my labors. I put it all abilities, what you gave me. I told people about the greatness of thy deeds: I gave them all the explanations, what is my final mind allowed me to embrace the infinite ... I have used all their efforts to rise to the truth, but if I'm miserable worm, born in sin and vzrosshy said anything unworthy of you, then, oh. God, teach me how to correct the mistake! I pray Thee not to allow me to self-delusion this work, which is dedicated to the glory of Thy Divine!

O God, take me to the bosom of Thy grace, and grant me the grace to work never served for evil, but only for the glory of thy name, and for the salvation of souls. "

Camille Flammarion, the famous astronomer who studied the moon, Mars, double stars, so excited confesses the greatness and the incomprehensibility of God, "Oh, the unknown, the mysterious creature, O great and incomprehensible! Supreme culprit of all harmony and beauty. Who and what is the You, if thy so great? pitiful human beings, these insignificant ants crawling on the surface of the planet and the void are sure that they know thee, oh. Allah! And what name to give to those who deny thee who does not live the thought of you, who have never felt your presence. Father of all nature, I love to bow before Thee, O Divine Home: but I was so insignificant that I do not dare to think that I could have heard you. 'But you hear me, Master, Thou the beauty of giving Field and fragrance flowers, and give ear to me. voice of the ocean can not drown thee for my babbling, and my thought comes to you in this common prayer! "

The astronomer Camille Flammarion, also said: "Mathematical astronomy organization in order (the universe) originates Mind is without a doubt higher than the mind of astronomers who discovered the laws of the expression of ruling the world."

The astronomer Herschel testified, "The more extendible area of ​​science, the more is evidence of the existence of the Eternal and Almighty Creative Mind."

Astronomer Medler wrote: "Who do unless one wants to see this harmony, reveals with such evident in the structure of the sky, that should the occasion to ascribe divine wisdom." The Italian astronomer Angelo Secchi epitaph reads: "From the spectacle of the sky - a short way to God."

According to astronomer Watson, "the study of the mechanism of the wondrous sky excites and strengthens us in amazement to the infinite perfection of God Almighty and Zhivago."

Great physicist, astrophysicist and cosmologist XX century Gina says: "Primitive cosmogony drew Creator working in time, forges the sun and the moon, and the stars of the existing raw material. Modern scientific theory makes us think of the Creator, is running out of time and space, which are part of His creation, as well as the artist is outside his canvas. "

The largest of the century physicist Arthur Compton, a Nobel laureate, said: "Faith begins with the knowledge that the Supreme Mind has created the universe and man. It is easy to believe it, because the fact of the plan and, therefore, the Mind - is undeniable. Order in the Universe that is unfolding before our eyes, he testifies to the truth of the great and sublime statement: "In the beginning - God."

Russian poet A.I.Polezhaev reflecting on the device and the origin of the sky, said:
"Stretch to heaven thy pensive gaze:
Seest not any of them have a slender consonant Creator choir?
Do you feel an involuntary admiration?
Derznesh Do not recognize the power and the power of God,
Mysterious charter unfathomable finger
In the wisdom of drawing the worlds, planets and stars? "

The famous naturalist and biologist XVIII century, Carl Linnaeus, the founder of the system of plant and animal life (he also described about 1,500 species of plants) testified: "The Eternal, the Great Omniscient and Omnipotent God passed me, I did not see his face, but his reflection enveloped my soul and plunged it in awe, I noticed here and there traces of Him in His creation. All His works, even the small and inconspicuous, what power, what wisdom, what unimaginable perfection, I watched as animate beings are following each another unbroken chain, adhering to the vegetable kingdom, the plants adhere to the mineral kingdom going off into the interior of the Earth, whereas this ball is spinning in a constant manner around the sun, giving it life. Finally, I saw the sun and all the other luminaries, the entire star system , infinite, incalculable in its immensity, moving in space, hung among the eternal emptiness first incomprehensible engine, the Being of beings, the cause of causes. Chief and the Guardian of the Universe, Lord of the Employee and all things in the world! So, we have to believe that there is a God, Great and Eternal is not generated by any creature. who created a worldwide deal may dwell in it in order. He disappears from our eyes, though, and fills them with light. Only one thought befalls him, only in the deepest sanctuary hid his greatness. "

According to the eminent scientist MV University, "The Creator has given mankind two books. One showed His Majesty, in the other - His will. First - this visible world, He created man to looking at the vastness, beauty and harmony of its buildings, recognized the divine omnipotence of faith currently bestowed concepts. second book - the Holy Bible. Sozdateleva It shows a blessing to our rescue. now in the prophetic and apostolic books inspired interpreters and Expounder essence of the great religious teachers. thereof In addition the book visible world of physics, mathematics, astronomy, and other Expounder the divine in nature to influence actions are the essence of what a book thereof, prophets, apostles and teachers of the church. "

One of the founders of electrodynamics - a physicist Ampere said: "In nature, we can see things the Creator and from the rise of the knowledge of the Creator. Though God is hidden in His creation to some extent as the actual motion of stars close imaginary, but the imaginary movement of the stars lead to knowledge valid, and similarly, knowledge of works of creation we rise to the Creator and to some extent even contemplate His divine attributes. "

Close XIX century naturalist Agassiz says: "Science - translate thoughts into human language of the Creator." And the same zoologists said: "The world is the clearest proof of the existence of a personal God, the Creator of all things and the Divine Providence of the world."

Chemist Liebig, one of the founders of agricultural chemistry, writes: "The knowledge of nature is the way to awe before the Lord."

The famous naturalist Wallace testified: "The universe is now so overwhelmingly complex mechanism that inspires most minds the idea of ​​the existence of a superior reasoning Power - God is everywhere penetrating and supporting it."

A number of the world's greatest mathematicians Cauchy, who made a tremendous contribution to the theory of analytic functions, the theory of differential equations, mathematical physics, number theory, geometry, author of the classic courses of mathematical analysis, said: "I am a Christian, that is, I believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ how (and) Tycho Brahe, Copernicus, Descartes, Newton, Fermat, Leibniz, Pascal, Grimaldi, Euler and others, like all the great astronomers, physicists and mathematicians of the past centuries ... In all this (Christian faith), I do not I see that beat out a confusing my head, it would be harmful to her. Conversely, without this sacred gift of faith, without knowledge of what I hope and expect that to change the future, my soul in uncertainty and anxiety would be tossed from one thing to another and this anxiety and uncertainty about the soul of thought is that often produces an aversion to life and can eventually lead to suicide. "

Albert Einstein (1879-1955 gg.) - The greatest physicist of the XX century, one of the founders of modern physics, the author of the special and general theories of relativity, introduced the concept of the photon, discovered the laws of the photoelectric effect, worked on the problems of cosmology and unified field theory, the Nobel Prize this to say about his attitude to religion: "I believe in God as a person and in good conscience I can say that not one minute of my life I was an atheist. As a young student I strongly rejected the views of Darwin, Haeckel and Huxley, as the views of helplessly outdated. "

One day a reporter asked a direct question to Albert Einstein, a scientist recognizes the historical existence of Jesus Christ and received the answer: "Absolutely! Can not read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. Neither myth is filled with such life. Conquered me a vivid image of the Nazarene! "

The scientist Charles Darwin, the founder of Darwinism, once said: "In times of extreme fluctuations I have never been an atheist in the sense that I deny the existence of God."

Louis Pasteur, the father of modern microbiology and immunology, said: "I learned a lot and because I believe, as a simple peasant, if I became even more learned, my faith would be as deep and flames as the belief simple peasant woman." According to this scholar, "the more I study nature, the more staying in reverent amazement before the affairs of the Creator. My prayer during their work in the lab."

Renowned physicist and inventor Thomas Edison (invented the light bulb) in a conversation with a reporter on whether the world of atoms gave this answer: "Do you think that this is accomplished without any sense? Atoms in harmonious and useful compounds is beautiful and interesting shapes and color, as if expressing her pleasure. in disease, death, decomposition or rotting - disagreement constituent atoms immediately makes itself felt bad odors. connection to the known forms of animals atoms form the lower ranks. Finally, they connect to the person who represents a complete harmony of meaningful atoms.
- But where is the original source of this comprehension?
- In a Power above us.
- So, do you believe in a Creator, a God?
- Of course - said Edison - the existence of God can even be proved by chemical means. "

Scientist Henri Becquerel - discoverer of radioactivity - testified: "It is my work led me to God, to the faith."

One prominent scientist Michael Faraday (discovered the law of electromagnetic induction), reading the Holy Bible, said: "I am amazed at why people choose to wander in the dark on many important issues, when God gave them such a wonderful book of Revelation?"

The great physicist Thomson (discovered the electron) said: "Do not be afraid to be independent thinkers: If you think hard enough, you will inevitably given by science to faith in God, which is the foundation of religion. You will see that science is not the enemy of religion and assistant" .

The famous scientist, physicist and mathematician Stokes testified, "As for the claim that recent scientific studies have shown that the Bible and religion are wrong, then I'll answer it bluntly, this view is completely false, I do not know any firm conclusions of science, which would be contrary to Christian of religion. "

Physicist and chemist Ramsay, Nobel laureate (discovered argon, krypton, xenon, neon), said: "In my opinion there is no real conflict between the facts of science and essential doctrines of Christianity."

Eminent philosopher, physicist, mathematician and physiologist Descartes wrote: "I always thought that two issues - the existence of God and the essence of the soul - to be considered the most important among the issues that should be addressed more philosophy than theology, for though for us believers, it is enough to believe in God and that the soul perishes with the body, but without a doubt, the non-believers can not be forced to recognize any religion or even any moral virtue except by arguments of reason. "

Scientist entomologist (insect studied) Fabre (author of the ten editions "Entomological Memories", 1879-1907 gg.) Left this testimony to their faith in God: "The world is governed infinite Mind. More I watch, the more I discover this mind, glowing of the existing secret. I know that I will have to laugh, but I care little about it, it's easier to tear off my skin than to take away my faith in God. God ... I do not need to believe in Him - I see him. "

Famous medieval philosopher Francis Bacon said: "A little science away from God, a lot - closer to Him." Outstanding physicist, mathematician and religious philosopher Blaise Pascal (this scientist for the flexibility and insight of his mind put in one of the three most eminent mathematicians in the history of mankind) says: "There are three classes of people: one found God, and serve him, those people reasonable and happy. Others are not found and does not seek him; these mad and unhappy. Others have not found, but the search for him, it is reasonable people, but still unhappy. " Pascal calls each person to humility before God: "Be humble, feeble mind, Peace foolish nature; Know that a man - a being infinitely incomprehensible to man, and inquire at your Lord about the unknown to you your true condition. Listen to God."

English physicist Railay - one of the founders of the theory of vibrations, the author of fundamental works on the molecular scattering of light, acoustics, and the law of blackbody radiation, Nobel laureate says: "Many outstanding people do not want to know anything about natural science because it supposedly leads to materialism . What fear can not exist, it is not surprising: in the literature there are many lawyers science that made the spread of such views occupation. No doubt, of course, that the representatives of science, like all others, may be found on the rough idea on top and the basics of nature. But that diverged from the spirit of science religious and philosophical beliefs that lived Newton, Faraday. Maxwell, this is certainly a situation where denial I do not consider it necessary to do. "

The great scientist, physicist, astronomer and engineer Galileo Galilei - the discoverer of the laws of inertia and gravity of bodies, the inventor of the telescope, discovered the mountains on the moon, four moons of Jupiter, the phases of Venus, said: "The actions of the nature of the Lord God is our least admirable way than the divine verses of Scripture. "

Galileo Galilei owned and the words: "Holy Scripture can never transgresseth or mistaken. Scripture itself can never be wrong, because in many places it is not only permits, but requires interpretation, retreating from direct literal sense."

The great physicist Reynolds - researcher of fluid flow, turbulence, said: "As a result of scientific research in recent years I do not see anything that would cause me to doubt the direct revelation of God to people at different times, and Christianity is based on this belief."

English botanist Brown (opened known from school physics course Brownian motion) says: "The knowledge of God in the world - this is the first movement of the mind, awakening from the hustle and bustle of everyday life."

American geologist of the last century, Hall left the vivid evidence of the relationship between science and religion: "Since the Bible was not written to teach people the natural history and physical sciences, and originally intended for residents of the eastern countries who are not familiar with the results of modern research, the language and it, in presenting the subjects of natural science is this, what it should be, to fit in with the concepts inherent to those to whom it is addressed. achieve such results of modern research was given to the human mind and experience of the following centuries. Bible and science, therefore, move on parallel lines. items available investigation of the human mind, given his vision, whereas the Bible interprets the moral and spiritual aspects of human nature, which the mind is not in a position to disclose without assistance. As for the truth and accuracy of the historical books of Scripture, the daily opening slope to validate them. Recent studies in Egypt, Palestine and other eastern countries have shown the extent to which, even in minute details, the documents of the Old Testament may be admitted with great confidence. Implementation of the Old Testament prophecies in the person of our Lord Jesus Christ, prophecy, uttered in the whole century to His appearance, as well as those prophecies that relate to the fate of nations - particularly Jewish - strong evidence that these prophecies were pronounceable under the influence of Divine inspiration.

However, a highly moral teaching of the Bible is incompatible with the idea that the prophecy might come from resorting to deception. The teaching of our Lord and His Apostles in itself bears the imprint of the divine truth. "

Biologist Schleiden - one of the founders of the cell theory of the structure of living organisms came to this conclusion: "It is true and accurate, then the naturalist and can never become a materialist and deny the soul, the freedom of God."

One of the founders of electrochemistry, a physicist and chemist Humphry Davy, in his book "The Last Days of the naturalist" a few pages devoted to the proof of immortality, and that's what he, in particular, said: "The doctrine of the materialists always, even in my youth, I was disgusted. Sickeningly after listening to the lecture halls speeches evolutionary physiology of the gradual evolution of matter to the degree of animation by his own power, and even the development of her to the point of a rational being, I used to go away in the green fields and groves along the banks of the river - to nature, silently drew my heart to God and I have seen in all the Divine power tools ... New ideas and endless hopes then arose in my soul, and I felt the thirst for immortality. These sentiments are usually, of course, belongs to the realm of poetry, but I think they make a healthy philosophical the basis for the belief in immortality. "

It is well known that the great Russian scientist-physiologist Academician IP Pavlov was a devout Christian, a parishioner of the Church of the Sign in Leningrad, and here is the explanation he gives of the immortality of the soul: "I study the higher nervous activity, and I know that all human emotions: joy, sorrow, sadness, anger, hatred, human thought, the ability to to think and reason - are connected, each of them with a special cell of the human brain and its nerves. And when the body ceases to live, then all of these feelings and thoughts of the person, as if looking up from the brain cells have died, due to the general law that that nothing - neither the energy nor matter - do not disappear and constitute the soul. immortal soul, which professes the Christian faith. "

The famous scientist and physiologist and pathologist Claude Bernard, one of the founders of Experimental Medicine and Endocrinology, said: "no matter how far gone experimental science forward in the progressive course of its development, and no matter how great its successes and discoveries, but it was never able to . without overstepping the boundaries of their own, to answer about the primary cause of all, the origin of matter and life, and the ultimate fate of the universe and of man. attempting to answer these questions, I enter into the realm of metaphysics and cease to be a naturalist, exploring the nature and know the truth by observing, My views and opinions in this case no longer have the credibility for themselves precise and positive knowledge, because here I am already beyond the competence of the physical and physiological sciences. "

Geologist Martius testifies, "marvelously with the Lord, before the wisdom and truth of which I am holy, created us out of matter and spirit, and combine with the light of the immortal spirit of the shadow of death matter, the immortal joy and eternal life of the spirit with transient earthly sorrows! Yes, so that no eye not seen and no ear has heard, and that at no man's heart was not included - it is bliss to which I hope that when I leave my body. "

The famous scientist - a geologist Lyell said: "In whatever direction we may produce their studies, we are opening everywhere yasneyshie evidence of the higher mind and the creative action of God's Wise in nature."

One of the world's greatest mathematician Euler said: "The Bible does not lose anything from the objections of unbelievers, as well as geometry, with respect to which there are objections, too. If there are hunters oppose even geometry, by what right can require non-believers, that we immediately and completely rejected the Scriptures as a result of objections to it, which, moreover, often are not as important as those that are made against the geometry. "

[NIko_bellic]

Оh god. I think it would be better if you could provide a link to this this text, but not copy it here.

[Fierfaks]

I simply decided to help with a translation into English.

[SD]

Having taken a cursory skim over that gigantic wall of text, see argument from ignorance and appeal to authority - both logical fallacies. I will read your copy/pastes in more depth tomorrow when I have more time, and pull them apart piece by piece for you, no need to thank me

[Fierfaks]

Yes you realist. Without having felt hands and without seeing eyes, you won't believe.

[Fierfaks]

Having taken a cursory skim over that gigantic wall of text, see argument from ignorance and appeal to authority - both logical fallacies. I will read your copy/pastes in more depth tomorrow when I have more time, and pull them apart piece by piece for you, no need to thank me

You shouldn't worry. I know that you will give many arguments against, and we will vaguely argue.

[dyn]

The Lord created the nature and the person. And the person destroys all this and destroys. He is a parasite on an earth body.

That's something which is very problematic today, there is too many people destroying too much of the habitat. I can see this locally, farmers cutting down trees for a small profit, and here it is nothing compared to Brazil and other places. This must end, along with economic sabotage and technology repression. You know, there are inventions and technology which could provide energy for free, which in turn means much less pollution and better living conditions for many, which in turn means population numbers stabilize naturally, and this naturally leads to less parasitic civilization. Next thing we need to do is to expand into space.

[craij]

The Lord created the nature and the person. And the person destroys all this and destroys. He is a parasite on an earth body.

That's something which is very problematic today, there is too many people destroying too much of the habitat. I can see this locally, farmers cutting down trees for a small profit, and here it is nothing compared to Brazil and other places. This must end, along with economic sabotage and technology repression. You know, there are inventions and technology which could provide energy for free, which in turn means much less pollution and better living conditions for many, which in turn means population numbers stabilize naturally, and this naturally leads to less parasitic civilization. Next thing we need to do is to expand into space.

You can start here -> eat less meat (or none at all)

... insanely long and virtually unreadable entry of pasted text... Every miracle is an undoubted fact. ... insanely long and mind-blowingly opinionated garble...

Ka-Pow! Color me convinced! Oh god damnit... snopes.

I have a question, do I get to decide what is a miracle or not?

[VAT]

I have a question, do I get to decide what is a miracle or not?

no - you are your own miracle awhile....

[Fierfaks]

Atheists unveil Fla monument near Ten Commandments

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/06/29/3477086/atheists-unveil-monument-by-ten.html

[craij]

I want to add a Satanist monument next them both now (and I'm not a Satanist).

Besides, isn't an athiest "congregation" still a fucking religious behavior? A belief in anything is a religion. If they were true athiests, they'd stay the fuck away from any subject having to do with it as opposed to "creating a conversation" about it. Smash it or pretend its not there dipshits.

[SD]

I want to add a Satanist monument next them both now (and I'm not a Satanist).

Besides, isn't an athiest "congregation" still a fucking religious behavior? A belief in anything is a religion. If they were true athiests, they'd stay the fuck away from any subject having to do with it as opposed to "creating a conversation" about it. Smash it or pretend its not there dipshits.

Only just checked this thread again. A belief in anything is a religion? No, it quite obviously isn't.
As an atheist <--- that's the correct spelling btw, why should I stay away from the subject of religion? Are you a rapist? If not, don't ever dare have an opinion on it! As for "smash it or pretend it's not there" - it's been smashed over and over again. If you're not convinced, start a new thread and I'll happily chew your arguments up and spit them back in your face. 3.2.1.GO!

Seriously dude, if you want to debate it I'll be your opponent. I'll even start the thread if you prefer. Don't tell me I can't have an opinion, or I'll just ignore yours. I'm amazed that any thinking person can even hint at the notion that atheists should shut up about religion on account of the fact we don't believe, I don't happen to be a huge fan of fucking little boys in the ass without asking them first either, should I just keep quiet about my opinion on those who think it's cool?

[dyn]

That's about technical side of things, but some people want to say, when looked from far away you may observe same behavioral patterns present within groups of atheists like they are with random believer groups. Mainly, they defend their more or less fixed position, they see believers as less developed and stupid believing in so-called "fairy tales"*, and ultimately one can observe concerted effort to undermine their opponents, attack them from different angles and to spread "lack of belief" around. So, looked from far away there is very little or no difference between atheism and other religions.

* - instead of dismissing all of them as nonsense i many times pointed out those may look silly because people didn't interpret or understand them correctly, and without this knowledge any reproduction of those myths will also introduce various errors. Some old myth may as well be encoded scientific formulae, or key to something, with original authors hoping it will survive countless generations of inevitable idiocy which followed after their society collapsed. Same will happen to this society if we don't do something about it.

[SD]

Not sure what "behavioural patterns" you might be seeing with atheists. I can only speak for my self, I'm not in a position to represent atheists in general. The only thing atheists necessarily agree on is that there is no evidence for the existence of anything that could reasonably be called a "God". My position is anything but fixed, whatever the truth might be I want to know about it. The problem is that all groups who suggest that the truth is that there exists some kind of transcendent, immaterial, omnipotent, omniscient deity are utterly unable to get even close to demonstrating that there is in fact any truth at all to this claim.
I don't see anyone as "less developed" but at the same time yes, I'm more than happy to compare religious doctrine in general to fairy tales. After all, fairy tales are made up by people, and all available evidence, when examined with an un-biased eye suggests that the same applies to religious doctrine. Granted, I haven't studied them all in depth, I focus mainly on the more popular mono-theisms, in particular Christianity.
Yes, there is an effort to undermine my opponents. It's not difficult to do, the only time you'll find me really attacking anything is if something is presented in the first place. The only thing I want to "spread" is skepticism.

How one can compare atheism to religion continues to baffle me. Lack of said thing is the same as said thing? Not having a blue pen is equivalent to having a blue pen? It clearly isn't. In exactly the same way as not belonging to a religion is not the same as belonging to a religion. It's like saying not being a Hindu is just the same as being a Hindu.

[dyn]

How one can compare atheism to religion continues to baffle me.

It's very simple really, it's not that atheism is a proper textbook religion, but it may create similar "us the enlightened" vs "them the idiots" atmosphere which was so typical for religious persecution through the human history. For example pagans were persecuted by the Christians, and later by the Muslims. At the same time i don't believe anyone will say being rational is wrong, except those true believers who still think Earth is flat.

[AG]

How one can compare atheism to religion continues to baffle me.

It's very simple really, it's not that atheism is a proper textbook religion, but it may create similar "us the enlightened" vs "them the idiots" atmosphere which was so typical for religious persecution through the human history.

it's not a direct comparison of atheism to religion, it's the similar psychology in how the people involved approach the two -- those people being on opposite ends of the spectrum but acting in exactly similar ways.

sd, you're an exception, but most atheists i've known are just as awful and intolerable as any turbo christians i've known. both are angry and want to tell me -- uninvitedly -- what i need to think because *they know* and i and everyone else don't.

[SD]

I dont want to tell you what to think mr G! I just want you and everyone else to think for themselves! Im on my phone and will reply properly later

[Wubsy]

Can I jump in this hell (discussing such subjects that is) too? I don't want to start a new topic just for this..
So, I followed the discussion since it started (yes, I stalked the forums..), and I think it's interesting to add another layer: What do you think about ancient aliens?

[Wubsy]

Also, the Zeitgeist documentaries..

[Fierfaks]

You very much not the well-mannered, impatient and spoiled girl.